beegee - Posted - 11/20/2016:  14:57:07

Some things I know. Others I do not. This one I do not know:



What is this L-shaped piece pictured here with the arrow pointing to it? I don't recall ever seeing one of these. The last ball bearing I totally disassembled was over 30 years ago. The banjo I'm working on TB-4 #8117-20 does not have one. It does have the skirt with holes, but if this piece was ever there, it wasn't when I got it.



Can anyone illucidate?

Edited by - beegee on 11/20/2016 15:26:20

revellfa - Posted - 11/20/2016:  15:27:45

Nope. Never seen that in the two BBs I've owned.

RioStat - Posted - 11/20/2016:  15:42:39

Hey Bob, I own 8069 - 73, from what I can determine, makes it one of the first couple hundred Mastertone's ever built.

I've had mine completely apart, when I put a five string neck on it, and mine does not have any "L" shaped ring around it.

It has the "shotgun" skirt, and the tube and ring, etc.. but nothing that looks like that. That looks like it would have been an effort to keep the skirt from touching the rim.

I have no idea what that is....

Also, I noticed you were looking for washers for that BB. I don't have any, but, interestingly enough, some of the holes on my rim had double washers, either in the bottom of the hole under the spring, or on top of the spring. One spring even has a washer that was ground down, almost paper-thin! 

Evidently, Gibson had a way of measuring, so every ball-bearing was sitting at the same height.

I'm curious to hear other responses, myself.

Leslie R - Posted - 11/20/2016:  16:00:49

Mine is 8059-11.  I've had it around 10 years I think.  It did not come with a piece that looks like what you are asking about.  This is the first time I've ever seen any reference to that piece.

beegee - Posted - 11/20/2016:  16:24:23

Whew! I have been forgetting things lately. I thought maybe I was losing it, because I have never seen that before to my recollection. The shotgun skirt seems to fit well. I just happened to sit an RK flathead ring on it last night and it almost fits. It's really loose laterally and the skirt is  about 1/16" too short at the bead. Tempting.I could make a "cut-label" flathead...

haystack - Posted - 11/20/2016:  16:25:22

If I remember correctly, the first Gibson mod 3, that I used to own, had this.  Of course it was rather unusual, in that it had an inlay at the first fret, and had an original sunburst finish.  It was 8012-9.  A friend Byron Reed, used to have 8012-11.  These were the earliest 3 models I've seen.  I traded mine off years ago on a 26 model 5.  I've often wished I could locate it, and possibly buy it back.  A friend near Weatherford, Texas, has a 25 MOD 3 that also has the L band which supported the guide ring, keeping it from digging into the bead, I suppose.  Shorty, on the hangout could give further details on the one I had and the one my friend near Weatherford has, as he converted both to 5-string.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 11/20/2016:  18:10:55

Here's a close up of a BB Granada 8104-10,  which is the kind with holes, and it definitely doesn't have that part:

The Old Timer - Posted - 11/20/2016:  18:16:57

That drawing suggests the rim is "too small" a diameter where the "skirt" comes down, so that filler piece is there to "center" the skirt. MUCH simpler method is simply to make the rim diameter a bit larger there, to center the skirt.

On my 1926, that skirt does fit slightly loose.

Brett - Posted - 11/20/2016:  19:27:31

I'm not sure what the drawing is trying to represent by my 26 style 3 had tiny little ledge there under the skirt that I noticed     When fitting a conversion flathead ring.  To get the ring to seat on inner skirt, I turned down the outer skirt of he conversion ring so that I could reverse at any time.  I didn't want to trim away that little wooden ledge.  Mine had a washer at the bottom of each hole, then valve spring (guessing that's what the springs were), then another washer, then ball bearing.  

Brett - Posted - 11/20/2016:  19:29:05

I couldn't see the tiny little wooden ledge with the stock ball bearing tone chamber stuff on the banjo.

dhergert - Posted - 11/20/2016:  19:36:31

Yup, my late '25 (no-hole skirt, no scalloping) does not have this feature either.  The skirt is tight on mine.  

I suspect on an early shotgun skirt this piece guarantees a tight fit while allowing space for newly installed skin-head moisture and possibly also sound to get out of the rim through the holes.

-- Don

Fathand - Posted - 11/21/2016:  04:43:41

Mine is # 8041 and I DO have that part on mine, It appears to be made of brass. and I believe holds the holed ring in place or prevents it from digging into the wood.

Edited by - Fathand on 11/21/2016 04:45:31

Flipped Tone Ring

 

 

 

Dave1climber - Posted - 11/21/2016:  06:46:01

My three does not have that part, my four does have that part. They are both 1925's with the "Shot gun" skirt.

dhergert - Posted - 11/22/2016:  08:51:24

I do remember reading in a few different places that there are some runs of the early Ballbearing Mastertones that the commonly built conversion flathead rings will not fit properly on.  I wonder if this L-shaped ring. or the implied smaller OD of the rim, has something to do with that.

Aside from my BB, the only other one that I've had apart, an early Style 5 with shotgun skirt and scalloped tone ring flange belonging to a friend, did not have this L-shaped ring.

-- Don

monstertone - Posted - 11/26/2016:  15:48:42

Assuming the sketch to be reasonably accurate, the fact that the spring holes are closer to the outside diameter of the pot rather than half way between the ID & the OD, indicates to me the "L" shaped ring is an adapter for an earlier pot not designed for the ball bearing ring. (Gibson using up existing inventory) If that's the case, on the pots not having L ring are the spring holes half way between the ID & the OD & is the shotgun skirt a close fit to the OD of the pot?

I had a 5 string neck made for a Ball Bearing banjo with the shotgun skirt. But since it belongs to my brother & now resides half way across the country with him, I've never had it apart. I sent him a link to this post & he confirmed that the banjo appears to have this L ring. I had never seen one of these tone rings disassembled & had always thought the skirt was an integral part of the tone ring. So are you guys saying that parts A,B,& C are brazed together and part D, the shotgun skirt is a separate part?  And when you "flip" the tine ring up side down making it a flathead, the head height is reduced?