Jimbeaux - Posted - 08/03/2016:  13:26:10

Hi all,

I just got a nice big piece of goat skin good enough for 2-3 banjo heads. It'll be my first time using real skin. 

I was wondering if I could use the hoop portion of an old frosted head (which I will never use) as a skin hoop. That is, can I cut off the plastic head and use the remaining metal hoop as a flesh hoop?

Maybe it's too thick and therefore won't give me enough space to adjust tension? I read some instructions from Walt Koken on using skin heads and he suggested using a coat hanger, which would definitely be much thinner than the metal part of a synthetic head.

Any input/experience would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Jim

PS, I have a good set of instructions in a book by W. Koken, but if you can point me in a good direction for any extra advice on mounting a skin head, dying it with coffee/tea, or waterproofing it to reduce high-humitidy sag, I would be very grateful! Of course, there's a lot of good info on this forum.

Edited by - Jimbeaux on 08/03/2016 13:27:45

rudy - Posted - 08/03/2016:  13:35:43

Brooks Masten had an excellent "how to" on using goat skin on his website and one of the things he said was to use 1/8" square brass for the flesh hoop.  The article says round hoops will always slack over time and the square shape locks the head.  This is a guy that's done a few goat skins, so I'd trust him.

The article isn't available on Brook's new website, but you can read it if you use the Wayback Machine internet archive.

revellfa - Posted - 08/03/2016:  13:38:10

I've done it many times. Make sure to file down all the rough edges. It should work fine

Bart Veerman - Posted - 08/03/2016:  16:41:38

If the head is a 5 Star (Ludwig) then you're in luck - the flesh hoop in these heads is 1/8" square stock brass for the older ones, stainless steel for the newer ones. If the head is a Remo it's a no-go.

You can easily make a flesh hoop yourself from a cheapo metal coat hanger bending it just with your thumbs & fingers as it doesn't need to be a mathematically perfect circle.

The post I made a few days ago might come in handy for you: banjohangout.org/topic/321167

revellfa - Posted - 08/03/2016:  16:46:56

I've never been a fan of the coat hanger thing because I prefer square ones for the stability as mentioned above.

RV6 - Posted - 08/03/2016:  16:57:27

I mounted a calf skin on an aluminum salvaged flesh hoop from a Remo.  The mounting worked just fine but the tone didn't suit me using it with nylon strings on my Sagmoen.   Might be fine with steel strings but I don't care for them so the calf skin head sits on a shelf.

banjonz - Posted - 08/03/2016:  19:49:09

I have used 1/8" grey PVC welding rod for some flesh hoop installs. It is flexible and easily joined by the judicious application of flame. It melts the ends together. 

AndrewD - Posted - 08/04/2016:  02:32:19

I've used the hoop from a bust Remo as a flesh hoop. If the banjo already has a Remo and the hooks clear the hoop then you should be OK. Make sure that you pull the skin as tight as you can with the stretcher band in it's final position (as far as possible)  before you start tensioning - Especially f your hooks have close ended nuts that may bottom out (I learned this one from experience)

Jimbeaux - Posted - 08/04/2016:  11:21:12

Thanks everyone for your advice. It looks like I'll see if I can find a better alternative, but if not, I'll give it a go with what I've got.

No matter how I do it it's gonna be an amateur's experiment!

Edited by - Jimbeaux on 08/04/2016 11:22:42

bartmcneil - Posted - 08/06/2016:  06:54:35

My own experience with installing skin heads is that a coat hanger is not the best or easiest solution. First you have to make the coat hanger perfectly straight, which can be a problem in itself... i found it much easier to buy a straight 36" long by 1/8" steel rod at the hardware store. Gradually bend it by hand or make a jig for bending. A jig is the easiest solution. Here's my jig if I can describe it accurately.

Drill through the end of a 2 X 4 with a 1/8" drill to loosly hold the rod . Clamp the 2 X 4 to a solid table or workbench with the hole just off the side of the bench.

Insert the steel rod all the way through the hole leaving roughly an an inch sticking up through the hole. using a small closed end hex wrench with the closed end over the rod use the wrench to force the rod into a very gentle bend.. Consistancy is the key to a perfect circle. Pull the rod up maybe 1/2 inch and continue the process the entire length of the rod and you will end up with a close to perfect circle. The closer to a perfect circle the easier the whole process will be.

Once you have the the circle very close to the perfect circle try it on the banjo pot and you will have to cut perhaps one inch off the total length to make it fit right. It should fit the banjo pot quite closely even before installing the skin.

Anyway that is how I shape mine into a very close to perfect circle.

It might be easiest for you to mark the rod every half inch or so to maintain consistency in creating the circle.

bartmcneil - Posted - 08/06/2016:  08:16:18

I was switching to a skin head from my Mylar head on my Goodtime. I cut away the hoop from the head to use as a flesh hoop for my unmounted skin head and I found that in my case it wouldn't work. The hoop (flesh hoop) with skin around it was too large in diameter and wouldn't allow the hooks to attach to the rim. Thus I had to make my own flesh hoop as described above.

AndrewD - Posted - 08/06/2016:  09:08:36

Just had a look at my Goodtime. And Bart is right in this case. The "flesh hoop" of a remo sticks out beyond the tension hoop and the hooks have virtually no clearance beyond the "flesh hoop" . The banjo I did it on was a Clifford Essex with a substantial notched tension hoop that projected beyond the Remo "flesh hoop" with plenty of room for a skin. So it really depends on how substantial your existing tension hoop is.

Tom Berghan - Posted - 08/08/2016:  12:49:00

It will work. I've used round bar and square. Both work. When hide dries it sticks to itself pretty well. The flesh hoop from your discarded Mylar head will work fine as the guys above have said. 

bartmcneil - Posted - 08/08/2016:  13:02:59

In my case I used steel round 1/8" stock 36" long and it worked just fine for the flesh hoop on my Goodtime.

Edited by - bartmcneil on 08/08/2016 13:15:59