thelonious9 - Posted - 07/08/2016:  15:07:44

Hi, I am in possession of a couple banjos from the 1890's fretless banjos that had been fretted at a later date.

I have made one a fretless again but am unsure as to the action at the nut specifically but also 12th fret height, as well as bridge heights and their tonal and structural differences.

At what point does one change the bridge height to fit the action wanted or reset the neck to fit the bridge height wanted?

2nd question is in regards to nylgut strings: I have put on a set but find the string tension from string to string to be very variable.

Some are very loose while others I can barely tune up without breaking?

Thanks for any assistance.

rudy - Posted - 07/08/2016:  15:46:48

If you're going with synthetic strings I'd recommend the nut slot height to be cut so the string is only about the thickness of a business card above the board.

Bridge height (and more or less position on the head) can be anything you want within reason.  Whatever suits your playing style is what you should make it.  Ideally you'll want enough back angle to the neck that you can have enough bridge height to produce the tone you're looking for.  I'd advise against resetting the neck if it isn't strictly necessary, especially on a vintage instrument.

Nylguts generally have a much softer feel than steel, if you're not accustomed to synthetics.  I don't find the tension to be all that inconsistent between strings, but that's certainly a function of the tuning that you're working with.  Your description of the tension variant that you're experiancing doesn't sound like what's commonly experianced.  It does sound like your tunings might be the problem.  Many folks that play strictly in G tuning aren't familiar with the wide tonal palate (and feel) that accompany clawhammer and other old time styles.

You might want to try Aquila  Reds or Chris Sands strings, too.

All this somewhat depends on the style of music you're working toward; classic styles require very different setup than what we are commonly used to.  A half inch high two footed lightweight bridge might be normal for one style, and something else entirely found on a banjo played for other old time styles.

bartmcneil - Posted - 07/08/2016:  19:08:32

Are you new to banjo? People who have problems breaking strings on installation are not uncommon. i would suggest going to fret.com and follow religiously the instructions on installing new strings and tuning the instrument.

Are the tuners on your banjo friction tuners or geared tuners? Friction tuners can often slip after tuning and that can be frustrating. Geared tuners do a better job of tuning however you likely want to retain originality on your instrument. Friction tuners can work very nicely when properly maintained. Let us know what type of tuners are presently on the instrument and we can advise you from there.

If you are using strings for a five string banjo any common brand should work just fine. You are doing something quite wrong I think and studying frets.com should set you straight on installing strings without breaking them.

Keep us informed on your progress.

thelonious9 - Posted - 07/08/2016:  20:02:35

Hi, i am not new to the banjo, I have played guitar for 20+ years and repair them myself.

I don't play or maintain many fretless instruments which is why i mainly was curious if the action standards were any different.

This is a banjo from the 1890's and has brass friction tuners with a set screw in the end for tightening. I have no problem with the tuners slipping excessively.

I use Aquila Banjo Classical Light Classical Strings with tuning DBGCG, I have read the instructions and realize they break easy over the nut if the front of the nut is not rounded of its edge where it meets the string.

The B string is very floppy while the 1st G string is way to taut and haven't gotten up to tune without breaking.

I realize i can buy and use whatever gauges will give me a uniform tension but was just curious why their seems to be irregularity if they are designed for a particular tuning. 

oldtimefolkie - Posted - 07/08/2016:  20:50:27

Is your "1st G" string tuned up an octive too high? Are you mixing octaves is what I mean?  

I find I have to tune my Nylguts up to about 1/2 or 3/4 pitch and let them sit for a day then slowly tune up to full pitch to avoid breaking one every so often.

Edited by - oldtimefolkie on 07/08/2016 20:52:43

bartmcneil - Posted - 07/09/2016:  04:11:39

Also, Nylgut (Nylon) strings take some getting used to. They will act quite different from steel if you are used to steel strings and may seem "floppy"when properly tuned. That is their nature and you will have to adjust your picking style (right hand technique) to accommodate the nature of the Nylgut strings.

jduke - Posted - 07/09/2016:  09:08:52

You discribe your tuning as DBGCG.  Which is your 5th (short) string?  We usually show it with a lower case letter and usually show it first, not last. 

Since gCGBD is a common tuning , but opposite of the way you have it listed, it makes me wonder if you are tinning your strings to the wrong notes( dBGCG instead of gCGBD).  That would certainly cause the difference in string tension that you mention.

Also, Aquilla uses color codes instead of numbers to identify the strings in a set.  Would be easy to get them in the wrong order on your banjo.

Edited by - jduke on 07/09/2016 09:12:25

paverity - Posted - 07/09/2016:  11:51:16

Aha!! ?? I just looked at the Aquila site; they describe their "Timeless banjo set - medium" as 'DBGDG'; I presume this has to be the same as the tuning that most banjo players would describe as 'gDGBD' , if starting from the thumb-string side? Is this a cause of any confusion?

I have an earlier set of Aquila banjo strings on my "playing" fretless (a Windsor, I think? I also have a matched pair with a "vine-leaf (?) metal inlay on the fretboard) & I am fairly happy with those Aquila (although I play little American music or five-string nowadays...).

Would you guys think that the new "Reds" are worth changing to?

Pav. in Edinburgh

rudy - Posted - 07/09/2016:  12:53:37

quote:

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Originally posted by paverity

Aha!! ?? I just looked at the Aquila site; they describe their "Timeless banjo set - medium" as 'DBGDG'; I presume this has to be the same as the tuning that most banjo players would describe as 'gDGBD' , if starting from the thumb-string side? Is this a cause of any confusion?



I have an earlier set of Aquila banjo strings on my "playing" fretless (a Windsor, I think? I also have a matched pair with a "vine-leaf (?) metal inlay on the fretboard) & I am fairly happy with those Aquila (although I play little American music or five-string nowadays...).



Would you guys think that the new "Reds" are worth changing to?



Pav. in Edinburgh

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I love the all red set, although I think Mimmo might have already changed from all reds to a wound fourth.  The original Nylgut strings are good, but the neweset "Super Nylgut formulation is much better.

Here's a tune on the all reds to show how much more of an edge they have over the standard Nylgut formulation.