crazybilly - Posted - 06/06/2016:  10:26:39

I picked up an old pearloid Gretsch/Bacon banjo the other day. I doesn't have any markings on it but it sure looks like something made by Gretsch during the changeover from Bacon. 

It came with metal, friction tuners and steel strings. I'm thinking with those tuners (and the lack of an obvious truss rod) that I should go to Nylguts. 

It has a tone ring (maybe a rolled steel rod?) and a calfskin head. I'm still working on getting the head up to tension--right now with light steel strings it seems to be staying in tune and has a fairly warm sound with way too many overtones unless I stuff a rag in the back. I think I can tighten the head a bit still--it still feels pretty floppy--which should help with the overtones, I think.

I had a set of the minstrel Aquilas on my long neck a while--they felt and sounded great. Until they broke, being tuned up to normal pitch. I'm thinking about a set of the standard tensions with the one red string. Thoughts? 

Celloid banjo

Bufo Bill - Posted - 06/06/2016:  13:47:08

Hi, I run the Polymer Strings group page here on the BHO, and have linked your post there, hopefully someone has a good answer for you. For what it's worth I hear the Reds themselves are much more stable these days, but I have no relevant experience to advise you myself. 

Hope someone can help over on the Polymer Strings page, from Bill.

crazybilly - Posted - 06/06/2016:  14:11:25

Thanks, man--I'll take a gander over there!

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 06/06/2016:  14:11:27

I'd try a set of Chris Sands .
In my experience, they're more durable,
and a good choice for friction pegs as they're
stretchier and thus less touch than steel.
Sound wise they should work great with a skin head.

Good Luck.

csacwp - Posted - 06/06/2016:  18:10:50

All 5-string banjos made prior to the '50s with the exception of Gibsons (and their sub-brands) were made with gut strings in mind. I'd try a set of nylons. Chris Sands nylons are too thick and dead sounding for me... the gut that was used back in the day was extremely thin and very elastic (low tension). The closest commercially made banjo string set would be the LaBella 17's, although even they are much thicker than the old gut strings. If you want to experiment, you can use Savarez fluoro-carbon strings that have a similar density to gut. I'd start with a .0146 for the first and fifth strings.

Edited by - csacwp on 06/06/2016 18:11:40

crazybilly - Posted - 06/07/2016:  06:29:01

I've heard the LaBella's are pretty floppy--I do hate floppy strings (the higher tension the better or so my fingers tell me--when I buy steel strings, I always get the heaviest set I can find). I tried some harp strings, too, on the long neck--whatever gauges I got were too light for the long neck.

Hmm....maybe I should get a set of steel strings back on the long neck and use try those harp strings on the Gretsch. That seems like a good start...

Chadbanjo - Posted - 06/07/2016:  06:51:49

Before changing to nylons or guts, id crank the head tight, experiment with different bridges...let it settle. UNless the neck is bowing bad, shouldn't be a problem.

bartmcneil - Posted - 06/07/2016:  10:48:14

I would not hesitate to experiment with steel, nylon or gut strings.... What's to lose? You cannot duplicate the sound of Nylon with steel and if you want that sound you may have to get used to what you call "floppy strings". If your old banjo was going to get a bent neck it would likely have done so already.

crazybilly - Posted - 06/09/2016:  11:34:25

That mostly what I'm afraid of: the neck pulling up. I haven't measured yet, but the bridge already looks low, maybe 1/2" or lower. Makes me think that the shop it used to live in just lowered the bridge rather than change the neck angle after the neck bowed over the last 80 years.



I hate to make it worse!



I will say, though, the friction tuners are working GREAT with steel strings right now. It's been tuned up for a couple days now and each time I pick it up, it's still pretty much in tune. I expected it to drift out over the space of 24 hours, but it's staying rock steady.



I will say, though, that I still need to tighten the head. I tightened it considerably the other day (like 3/4 of a turn on each lug) and that made a vast improvement in the tone, but it still sounds really reverby out in front of the banjo (if I hold it up against my body and play, it sounds fine to me, but angled either way, it's a mess). It's a skin head, no clue how old (but there's not a ton of playwear on it), which always makes me nervous--just gotta take my time with it, I guess!

Edited by - crazybilly on 06/09/2016 11:35:04

crazybilly - Posted - 06/10/2016:  06:24:22

I got out the calipers and measured last night: whatever's on there is a very light set of strings. I measured:

• .009


• .011


• .013


• .019w


• .008

Using the string tension calculator here, that gives me 47# of tension (the scale length is 25", so it's a bit shorter than my other banjos). My normal set of clawhammer strings (the super heavy PF160s with a 26w which I love) would have 72# of pressure. The harp strings I've got would be 45# and the standard Aquilas are 53#.

With that in mind, I think I'm ok on tension--looks like I want to keep it between 45# and 55#. The problem is, steel strings aren't very stretchy, so adjusting those friction tuners is a pain! I've been wanting to get the harp strings off the longneck anyway--I think I'm going ot pull the trigger on a new set of strings for that banjo and move the harp strings on here. We'll see what happens from there!