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steve davis - Posted - 07/25/2016: 11:45:28
My bridges sound fantastic with flat feet.
jrmorrow - Posted - 07/25/2016: 12:46:22
Good. Use whatever you want. I'll enjoy my $35 Deering Smile bridges.
Banjophobic - Posted - 07/25/2016: 13:42:52
quote:
Originally posted by jrmorrow
Good. Use whatever you want. I'll enjoy my $35 Deering Smile bridges.
I don't recall anyone telling you not to use that bridge JR. If the bridge works great for you its money work spent. What some of us have problems with is the "science" marketing behind the bridge. There really "ain't none" , as we say in the double negative south. 😎
Folks do "use whatever they want" and always will. We are just have a discussion here. 🤓
Helix - Posted - 07/25/2016: 14:04:09
$45, big difference. Desert Rose and Silvio sell $35 bridges.
Ain't none, ain't gonna be none neither.
jrmorrow - Posted - 07/25/2016: 14:20:12
I don't post very often. I'm a very simple person. I can hear a difference in tone more than any other bridge I've tried and still like it weeks later. It feels good to me that I don't need to look anymore. Got my two dream banjos. Don't believe me . I don't give a rat. For the third time, I got mine for $35 each at Elderly Instruments . Elderly.com
Banjophobic - Posted - 07/25/2016: 14:42:26
quote:
Originally posted by jrmorrow
I don't post very often. I'm a very simple person. I can hear a difference in tone more than any other bridge I've tried and still like it weeks later. It feels good to me that I don't need to look anymore. Got my two dream banjos. Don't believe me . I don't give a rat. For the third time, I got mine for $35 each at Elderly Instruments . Elderly.com
Again, who said we didnt believe you? As I said before, and im sure everyone else posting here will echo it too, is thats great and enjoy the bridges. What some of us don't buy or agree with is the scientific marketing,thats all. No one can tell anyone else what sounds good to them. Im not sure about the hostility in just a simple discussion. 
Edited by - Banjophobic on 07/25/2016 14:43:32
rudy - Posted - 07/25/2016: 14:58:17
quote:
Originally posted by jrmorrow
I don't post very often. I'm a very simple person. I can hear a difference in tone more than any other bridge I've tried and still like it weeks later. It feels good to me that I don't need to look anymore. Got my two dream banjos. Don't believe me . I don't give a rat. For the third time, I got mine for $35 each at Elderly Instruments . Elderly.com
Hi Joe,
I'm certainly not doubting that you can hear a differance. I'm also not doubting those that say they can't hear a differance or it made their banjos sound worse.
There just isn't anything in the physical makeup of the Smile bridge that hasn't been done before and isn't already done by many. There's nothing in the Smile bridge's design that's going to make it sound any better than many other equally deserving and well-made bridges. Those are the simple facts.
The difficulty arises because these types of discussions always work their way around to the subjective determination of sound, and if it's superior or inferior to whatever else is currently in fashion.
Inflated claims are just that. As I often say, beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. No problem with that, and as long as you or anyone else is happy dispensing of $35 or any other amount of your heard-earned money then there's no problem.
Unsubstantiated claims of superior or unique design, and the right to claim ownership of a design (exactly what a patent is intended to be) regardless if there is "past art" to indicate it's been in common use is the real issue here that anyone has a problem with. Whatever the perceived effect on sound (or lack thereof) is of no importance.
Edited by - rudy on 07/25/2016 15:03:50
jrmorrow - Posted - 07/25/2016: 16:52:04
Cool. Thanks for your input. No hostility intended.
Scout70 - Posted - 07/25/2016: 18:09:09
I agree with the above comments. Everybody has an opinion based on experiences and other subjective considerations. My Huber has a Huber bridge and my banjo is dialed in. Likewise my Gibson has a Prucha bridge and sounds fantastic. I tried the Smile on the Gibson and noticed a suppressed quieter sound which I did not want. Between YouTube and this thread this observation is confirmed. I had a $4.00 Golden Gate Bridge that I tried next. It brought the tone right back. So for $45.00 plus tax, my subjective assessment was that the Smile is a pipe dream as banjo players look for that elusive new enhancement. I don't want to offend anyone--just my opinion.
Banjophobic - Posted - 07/25/2016: 18:27:18
Scout
what you intimated is at the core of what I "preach" on this forum, which is reality. I don't care how much you pay for a bridge or who says it will make your banjo sound great. There is absolutely no guarantee that any bridge will "improve" your banjos tone or volume. You have to simply try the bridges and find one that's suits your set up and what YOU like to hear.
I keep about all the name brand bridges talked about in the banjo world that I can afford ( and with so many that's a monetary challenge,hahahaha). I can tell you that they are all great quality and could be just the bridge for your banjo...or not. For every person who raves about bridge "X", I can find about as many who tried it and said "nah, wasn't the bridge for me". also, what was "the bridge" one month is often replaced with another bridge later.
Basically I tell customers to try bridges and if they find one they like, be it a 5 dollar Grover or a 45 Smile bridge, go for it and use it. But when it comes to marketing and urban legend , sometimes bridge talk becomes way over inflated and anectodtal wvidence becomes "fact". That's one stick,model tarpit.
Retro - Posted - 07/25/2016: 19:54:06
quote:
Originally posted by Scout70
Recently I talked to Greg Cahill about the "Smile" bridge. He swears by it. I then went down to Deering and bought one with the understanding I could return it if I did not like it. I tried it on my Huber Kalamazoo and Gibson. I returned the bridge the next day. There is a YouTube video comparison of bridges where the author comments he thought the Smile bridge mellowed the tone of the banjo. Both my banjos experienced noticeably subdued sound with the Smile bridge. The Smile was competing with my Huber and Prucha bridges which in my opinion are far superior.
In my opinion, you are wasting your money buying the Smile bridge. Don't drink the Deering Koolaid.
I think its the Violin(Red Maple) that makes em sound so good... I have to say you need to increase the Tailpiece pressure and leave the bridge on there a full day.. and you will notice a difference...also this aint about drinkin no kool aid... 
Paulf - Posted - 07/25/2016: 20:30:58
quote:
Originally posted by TT
quote:
Originally posted by Scout70
Recently I talked to Greg Cahill about the "Smile" bridge. He swears by it. I then went down to Deering and bought one with the understanding I could return it if I did not like it. I tried it on my Huber Kalamazoo and Gibson. I returned the bridge the next day. There is a YouTube video comparison of bridges where the author comments he thought the Smile bridge mellowed the tone of the banjo. Both my banjos experienced noticeably subdued sound with the Smile bridge. The Smile was competing with my Huber and Prucha bridges which in my opinion are far superior.
In my opinion, you are wasting your money buying the Smile bridge. Don't drink the Deering Koolaid.
I think its the Violin(Red Maple) that makes em sound so good... I have to say you need to increase the Tailpiece pressure and leave the bridge on there a full day.. and you will notice a difference...also this aint about drinkin no kool aid...
That makes sense to me, I have Tim Purcells' Roasted Red Maple bridge and that is a great bridge which seems to me to really improve in volume after a day or two. purcell-banjo-bridges.com/orde...dges.html There was a thread a while ago debating if a bridge took time to settle and if that the sound improved and there were a lot of opinions agreeing and disagreeing but with this bridge you can definitely notice a difference where as with others I don't.
Edited by - Paulf on 07/25/2016 20:39:30
jrmorrow - Posted - 08/14/2016: 13:31:46
I think some of the reason the difference in sound with the smile bridge is the curved bottom over the flat bottom. I've never had curved bottom bridges before these. I have noticed that it makes my banjo sound like a looser head. Others have commented to me in person the same thing. They thought my head sounded like at a G# when it is actually tuned to A. (Remo type head I'm using). Just to report my findings for those who might find it interesting.
rudy - Posted - 08/14/2016: 16:22:01
quote:
Originally posted by jrmorrow
I think some of the reason the difference in sound with the smile bridge is the curved bottom over the flat bottom. I've never had curved bottom bridges before these. I have noticed that it makes my banjo sound like a looser head. Others have commented to me in person the same thing. They thought my head sounded like at a G# when it is actually tuned to A. (Remo type head I'm using). Just to report my findings for those who might find it interesting.
It could be in your case, but if that's the determining factor to the difference in sound then you can use 50 cents worth of sandpaper and 5 minutes of your time on a $5 bridge to get a similar result.
(I'll gladly accept the money you save as a donation to my Paypal account...) 
jrmorrow - Posted - 08/15/2016: 14:59:26
Too late for me. But I have tried that with one of my Snuffy bridges. Go slow with it.🤓
Dan Drabek - Posted - 08/15/2016: 15:05:44
quote:
Originally posted by Banjophobic
Scout
what you intimated is at the core of what I "preach" on this forum, which is reality. I don't care how much you pay for a bridge or who says it will make your banjo sound great. There is absolutely no guarantee that any bridge will "improve" your banjos tone or volume. You have to simply try the bridges and find one that's suits your set up and what YOU like to hear.
I keep about all the name brand bridges talked about in the banjo world that I can afford ( and with so many that's a monetary challenge,hahahaha). I can tell you that they are all great quality and could be just the bridge for your banjo...or not. For every person who raves about bridge "X", I can find about as many who tried it and said "nah, wasn't the bridge for me". also, what was "the bridge" one month is often replaced with another bridge later.
Basically I tell customers to try bridges and if they find one they like, be it a 5 dollar Grover or a 45 Smile bridge, go for it and use it. But when it comes to marketing and urban legend , sometimes bridge talk becomes way over inflated and anectodtal wvidence becomes "fact". That's one stick,model tarpit.
In my experience, one could say the same about a $200 tone ring vs a $1000 tone ring.
Cynic that I am. :->
DD
rudy - Posted - 08/15/2016: 15:19:15
quote:
Originally posted by jrmorrow
Too late for me. But I have tried that with one of my Snuffy bridges. Go slow with it.🤓
Hi Joe,
I'm curious to know if you think there was an improvement in tone with your Snuffy?
silvioferretti - Posted - 08/16/2016: 16:29:08
quote:
Originally posted by Helix
$45, big difference. Desert Rose and Silvio sell $35 bridges.
Ain't none, ain't gonna be none neither.
Do I sell bridges for $35.00? I was not aware of it. I do not impose prices on my dealers, I know what my price(s) for dealers are, but not how much they sell Scorpion bridges for. How do you call it, a MAP? I don't have it, never had.
This said, I've used the round feet bottom design forever and a day, without talking about it, exactly like quite a few bridge builders around. A lot less curved, obviously, but curved enough to be noticed by several players. Ages ago Larry Perkins put me in touch with a then famous banjo building company because - as he said - my bridges sounded better and they never sagged. I was already making the feet profile a little curved, and the top too, evidently with good results against sagging... And recently a friend of mine from Ireland asked me what I thought of the Smile Bridge design, adding that it was pretty evident I had used that design (or a similar one) for years.
I really like Janet, Greg, and the Deering Banjo Co. They are good people, great people, they build fine banjos and have some pretty neat ideas. I'm not crazy about some other things they do, but it's a matter of taste. And they have the best (as in most natural sounding) amplified banjo being made today. As far as prices, almost none of the Deering models could ever be considered "cheap" of course, but OTOH when you buy a basic Goodtime you buy so much more than any other banjo in that price range. No comparison. I'm 100% sure they never intended using the patent for making extra money or, God forbid, to scare other bridge builders away. As Marty Lanham told me years ago, when I told him I was starting building bridges in earnest, "Congratulations! That's a great way to starve!".
Helix - Posted - 08/17/2016: 00:00:38
I really apologize for defaming you, Janet sells yours for $25 and Scott's for $35. You always miss the point. Good to have you poke your head up once in a while.
The point would be: for you to make sure you protect your intellectual property so it can be exploited in a positive fashion, your descendants could benefit greatly, it could provide your family with a legacy, and it is your right to do so.
Otherwise it looks like "last man standing." That's not good for the industry, and it's not good for the music. 50 employees.
I'm 100% thinking, 100% doing and the other 100% is still curious. Plenty of other and new ideas out there, not everything has to be put in a box.
How we say things and how we try to treat others and how the music plays through us is way more important, I'm workin' on it myself.
Bart Veerman - Posted - 08/17/2016: 05:55:35
I'm confused by your posts Joe: first you say you like that bridge and now it's sounds like the head is loose. Or are you talking about a different bridge:
- I'll enjoy my $35 Deering Smile bridges
- I can hear a difference in tone more than any other bridge I've tried and still like it weeks later
- I think some of the reason the difference in sound with the smile bridge is the curved bottom over the flat bottom. I've never had curved bottom bridges before these. I have noticed that it makes my banjo sound like a looser head
If anything, radiused footed bridges exert a tiny bit more pressure on the head so it should sound like the head is a smidgen tighter, not looser. A looser-head sound comes about with loose heads, when's the last time you checked the head tension?
BPorter - Posted - 08/18/2016: 12:34:15
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
They patent everything and invent nothing. I have lost my respect for them.
Patents are a lawyers game for sure....I know, I have two that have expired but sold the rights to them years before they did; e.g., 4,953,662 and 5,167,298. It takes a ton of money to enforce your patent rights.
The US Patent Office grants patents to stay in business and keep that green stuff coming in, whether the patents they approve are enforceable or not in my humble opinion.
Most patents issued are new and useful improvements to existing prior art....very few things are new under the sun.
Bill Porter
OldPappy - Posted - 08/18/2016: 14:34:27
Whether it it a discussion about bridges, tone rings, or tailpieces, there is a very wide range of opinion on what sounds best. Impossible to tell how the same banjo sounds to two different people. A banjo that sound great to me, might not even be close to what someone else wants to hear.
I like a banjo with good response and plenty of volume, one that rings out bright like I think a banjo ought to, but some folks want a "mellow", soft, or even dull sounding banjo, because, for whatever reason, that is what sounds good to them.
"I have noticed that it makes my banjo sound like a looser head"
I think that is just a clue as to what Joe considers "better sounding", maybe he likes the sound of a loose head.
Ken LeVan - Posted - 08/18/2016: 14:47:16
quote:
Originally posted by BPorter
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
They patent everything and invent nothing. I have lost my respect for them.
Patents are a lawyers game for sure....I know, I have two that have expired but sold the rights to them years before they did; e.g., 4,953,662 and 5,167,298. It takes a ton of money to enforce your patent rights.
The US Patent Office grants patents to stay in business and keep that green stuff coming in, whether the patents they approve are enforceable or not in my humble opinion.
Most patents issued are new and useful improvements to existing prior art....very few things are new under the sun.
Bill Porter
Bill,
I couldn't agree with you more. Patenting slight changes to things in the public domain that were once patented but have expired is just sifting through old bones.
Ken
silvioferretti - Posted - 08/23/2016: 15:47:30
quote:
Originally posted by Helix
I really apologize for defaming you, Janet sells yours for $25 and Scott's for $35. You always miss the point. Good to have you poke your head up once in a while.
(...) How we say things and how we try to treat others and how the music plays through us is way more important, I'm workin' on it myself.
Posts like this are the main reason for my avoiding to poke my head up in the BHO if I can help it. Keep working on your way of treating others, best wishes Larry. No emoticons.
steve davis - Posted - 08/23/2016: 16:04:15
I have no plans of adjusting my bridge building decisions because of what other builders claim.
I would think the basic description of a banjo bridge would be something like "A string support to raise the strings to a playable height" and pretty much end there.
Rawhide Creek - Posted - 08/23/2016: 16:32:37
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
. . .
I would think the basic description of a banjo bridge would be something like "A string support to raise the strings to a playable height" and pretty much end there.
We needed a new banjo joke! 
banjoronny - Posted - 08/23/2016: 16:43:54
It's the Patent system that causes the problem. You can copy anything that already exists and has a patent number or pending then file a patent application. The Patent office immediately upon the submitting of your application and a few hundred dollars allows you to affix Patent Pending to your item. While waiting for an answer you can manufacture a zillion of the copy items and sell them with no repercussion for Patent Infringement. Once the Patent office catches up & tells you your patent has been denied which takes about 3-5 years you must stop selling the items immediately. In the meantime while waiting for your denial which you know you will receive, you made a zillion items and a billions of dollars. The poor original owner of the approved patent gets screwed over by the loop holes in the flawed US Governmental system.
Deering is playing the Patent system like a fine tuned Stradivarius .
Edited by - banjoronny on 08/23/2016 16:48:13
steve davis - Posted - 08/24/2016: 07:52:34
quote:
Originally posted by Rawhide Creek
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
. . .
I would think the basic description of a banjo bridge would be something like "A string support to raise the strings to a playable height" and pretty much end there.
We needed a new banjo joke!
We're still waiting to hear your banjo joke,Russ.
Rawhide Creek - Posted - 08/24/2016: 09:25:34
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
quote:
Originally posted by Rawhide Creek
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
. . .
I would think the basic description of a banjo bridge would be something like "A string support to raise the strings to a playable height" and pretty much end there.
We needed a new banjo joke!
We're still waiting to hear your banjo joke,Russ.
No point in trying; yours is too funny!
steve davis - Posted - 08/25/2016: 05:54:12
A lot of times the general description of something is as far as patents go.
Kind of "A bridge is a bridge is a bridge",Russ.
What a hoot!
banjobeat63 - Posted - 09/29/2016: 01:34:51
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Purcell
In the world that we live in today, "Scientific Research" is just another way of saying "Google Search".
I'm sure there are some banjo players who do not keep up with the bridge industry like others do, so they may not be aware of designs and other aspects of the art of bridge making... I get that.....however....unless you've been living under a rock for the past decade, how could one not be aware of the flood of information that gushes out of the internet as well as by "word of mouth" if one is a banjo enthusiast?
I certainly didn't have a light bulb moment when I decided to radius the feet of my bridges. I actually had a customer...I wish I could remember his name...that wanted me to put a 36" radius on the feet of his bridge. I did that and then afterwards began experimenting with different radius and decided that my customer's 36" radius worked out very well as far as preventing the sagging issue. I also thought the tone was better too...but that's just my opinion. I also knew Bart put a radius on the feet of his bridges as well. I also knew Ken did as well, though he doesn't sell them commercially. If I'm not mistaken, Zimmerman puts a very slight radius on the tops of his bridges. It may have been only on the birch bridges...I'm not sure...maybe Scott can chime in here.
The point being that this radius on the feet is nothing new. I'm not going to do any name calling towards Deering. I personally think they make some of the best playing necks out there. I have, however lost respect for them over this issue with the "Smile" bridge. I don't even care that it looks almost identical to mine. I do have an issue with them not making mention to the fact that this design is already being used by other bridge makers. They're making it sound like they just invented toilet paper!
I'll just say this and then I'm done. Years down the road, recorded history will always bring out the truth no matter what. People can judge for themselves. Corporate America loves to have their hand on the power switch. Of course, it's just a banjo bridge.....there are far worse things going on in this world to spend our time worrying about.
Tim
I am completely of your opinion Tim!
Dave1climber - Posted - 11/04/2016: 14:00:23
quote:
Originally posted by Rawhide Creek
Review from the October 2016 Banjo Newsletter:
banjonews.com/2016-10/deering_...idge.html
Nine hundred forty six words to tell us all we need to know, that it sounds good without any brake-in time.
Rawhide Creek - Posted - 11/04/2016: 19:00:59
quote:
Originally posted by Dave1climber
quote:
Originally posted by Rawhide Creek
Review from the October 2016 Banjo Newsletter:
banjonews.com/2016-10/deering_...idge.html
Nine hundred forty six words to tell us all we need to know, that it sounds good without any brake-in time.
And that assumes you subscribe to the notion of banjo bridge "break-in" time.
Ralph Stanley legend - Posted - 01/06/2017: 13:35:57
I contacted Deering and asked " What kind of maple is the bridge made from "..... I am still waiting 
David Cunningham - Posted - 01/06/2017: 13:43:20
quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stanley legend
I contacted Deering and asked " What kind of maple is the bridge made from "..... I am still waitingÂ
Patent pending maple of course
rudy - Posted - 01/06/2017: 15:17:22
Violin Grade. 
BANJO TONY - Posted - 01/07/2017: 05:17:50
guys Deering has the money $$$. an you know what they say, money talks & BS walks. sad but true, they are the new Big dog on the block until someone beats them down. plus if none of what you guys were saying were true I am sure Janet would be right here with something to say.
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