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maneckep - Posted - 02/26/2016: 11:26:37
It's a shame someone butchered up the flange a bit where the neck goes.
jbalch - Posted - 02/26/2016: 11:54:07
Are you referring to the cut-out for the heel? That is proper and original on a B&D flange. Below is the photo from the auction. I attached a photo of a banjo formerly in my collection as a reference.
Edited by - jbalch on 02/26/2016 11:59:18
banjotrader - Posted - 02/26/2016: 11:54:44
I don't see anything out of place on this... the flange during this period did have a cut-out... Is that what you mean Emil?
maneckep - Posted - 02/26/2016: 12:16:27
John - thanks for pointing out my mistake about the cutout and teaching me about that particular Bacon model.
I have previously owned three different Bacon banjos (1 Belmont, and 2 Senoritas) and none of them had a cut-out. I incorrectly assumed they were all made the same.
jbalch - Posted - 02/26/2016: 12:30:03
quote:
Originally posted by maneckep
John - thanks for pointing out my mistake about the cutout and teaching me about that particular Bacon model.
I have previously owned three different Bacon banjos (1 Belmont, and 2 Senoritas) and none of them had a cut-out. I incorrectly assumed they were all made the same.
No problem. You are correct that some of the other, shallower, Bacon flange designs did not have this cut-out for the heel. Here is an example of that type too.
Edited by - jbalch on 02/26/2016 12:34:28
rudykizuty - Posted - 02/26/2016: 18:51:52
I own sn # 11527 and yes, these early models had a cutout in the flange for the heel. Later Silver Bell models did not, but I'm not sure exactly when that change may have happened.
Edited by - rudykizuty on 02/26/2016 18:53:13
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 02/26/2016: 23:59:17
The continuous development of the Silver Bell model went extremely fast during the first years of production.
New designs, constructions and features popped up - and the "learn-by doing" factor was very prominent these years. The company did for example rather fast find out that the very high quality/grade of the maple generally used by them for the necks allowed them to use a more slim profile plus a lower heel over time - the latter causing the heel to go free of the resonator flange - thus a cut-out in this was no longer needed.
Due to the use of old stock parts and overlaps due to this it can be hard to tell exactly when for example flanges with a cut-out were discontinued - on basis of the recordings in my extended database and my picture archive I´ll for now put the time for this to late 1924 - only 1½ years after the introduction of the model. Do however have the overlaps in mind - the first examples without a cut-out popped up by mid 1924 - the last examples with a cut-out may date to very early 1925.
Polle
dspainters - Posted - 02/27/2016: 04:51:38
my 23 silver bell also has this cut out too ser# 9332
cebracher - Posted - 02/27/2016: 12:51:41
quote:
Originally posted by rudykizuty
I own sn # 11527 and yes, these early models had a cutout in the flange for the heel. Later Silver Bell models did not, but I'm not sure exactly when that change may have happened.
Oh wow, I own #11535. Ours may have been assembled in the same month, maybe the same week!
By the way, my resonator flange DOES NOT have the cutout. I wonder if it was changed or if it was a transition model that did not have it. I'll have to ask Renee Karnes and see if she remembers.
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 02/28/2016: 00:12:42
Chris - many of the flanges on the early solid wood resonators have been replaced in the past - simply because the flange tends to crack at the small screws when the solid back expands perpendicular to the grains - due to absorption of moisture.
Round hole flanges have often been replaced with F-hole flanges - original or replica - plus I´ve seen a few SB´s with the heel height reduced in order avoiding the cut-out.
I can of course not tell about your SB 2 - maybe Renée can recall whether a replacement and/or alteration was performed by her.
Polle
Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 02/28/2016 00:13:27
rudykizuty - Posted - 02/28/2016: 06:24:44
quote:
Originally posted by Polle Flaunoe
Chris - many of the flanges on the early solid wood resonators have been replaced in the past - simply because the flange tends to crack at the small screws when the solid back expands perpendicular to the grains - due to absorption of moisture.
Round hole flanges have often been replaced with F-hole flanges - original or replica - plus I´ve seen a few SB´s with the heel height reduced in order avoiding the cut-out.
I can of course not tell about your SB 2 - maybe Renée can recall whether a replacement and/or alteration was performed by her.
Polle
Polle,
You've described the history behind #11527 exactly. In the mid-80's the small fissures that were always present since the time Dad and I acquired her eventually developed into cracks that required attention. The replacement F hole flange that she has been wearing for the last 30+ years was purchased from Russ Presting. So that no type of surgery would be necessary with the heel of the neck, the new flange was made with the cutout also. And I'm happy to report that she has held up fine all these years with no apparent issues in the area of the screw holes.
banjohangout.org/photo/168215
Edited by - rudykizuty on 02/28/2016 06:27:14
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 02/28/2016: 08:34:09
quote:
Originally posted by rudykizuty
You've described the history behind #11527 exactly. In the mid-80's the small fissures that were always present since the time Dad and I acquired her eventually developed into cracks that required attention. The replacement F hole flange that she has been wearing for the last 30+ years was purchased from Russ Presting. So that no type of surgery would be necessary with the heel of the neck, the new flange was made with the cutout also. And I'm happy to report that she has held up fine all these years with no apparent issues in the area of the screw holes.
Yes Tony - in my extended database I keep a recording of the flange on your banjo being replaced in the past - with a F-hole replica.
Do have in mind - a modern lacquering does to a certain degree prevent an absorption of moisture as mentioned above - opposite the original French polishing - due to this I take that you´ll not experience a flange cracking once again.
Polle
rudykizuty - Posted - 02/28/2016: 08:47:11
quote:
Originally posted by Polle Flaunoe
quote:
Originally posted by rudykizuty
You've described the history behind #11527 exactly. In the mid-80's the small fissures that were always present since the time Dad and I acquired her eventually developed into cracks that required attention. The replacement F hole flange that she has been wearing for the last 30+ years was purchased from Russ Presting. So that no type of surgery would be necessary with the heel of the neck, the new flange was made with the cutout also. And I'm happy to report that she has held up fine all these years with no apparent issues in the area of the screw holes.
Yes Tony - in my extended database I keep a recording of the flange on your banjo being replaced in the past - with a F-hole replica.
Do have in mind - a modern lacquering does to a certain degree prevent an absorption of moisture as mentioned above - opposite the original French polishing - due to this I take that you´ll not experience a flange cracking once again.
Polle
Actually, the resonator finish is still original, as is the neck and rim. The only wood that has ever gone under any cosmetic work was the peghead when some dents and dings were cleaned up and an local overspray was done.
