banjered - Posted - 02/16/2016:  15:01:28

I've put several hide heads on banjos and at least with appearance and function they were O.K. However I thought they sounded a bit too thuddy/muddy, especially one that seemed thicker than the rest. When I soaked them in warm water the hides were flexible enough to work with in about 5-10 minutes and so I put them on.

 I am wondering if I soaked them longer if I would get a  thinner, more responsive head? Banjered

tdennis - Posted - 02/16/2016:  15:30:24

My experience with skin heads is that there is a sweet spot for soaking: too little , & the head is still stiff & difficult to tuck, too much soaking makes the skin swell & develop the consistency of pie crust dough, which will tear easily. (No amount of soaking is going to make a head thinner or be more responsive). The important thing is to get the right thickness to begin with, & this is a matter of trial & error & personal choices about voicing.  If you've been playing mylar heads , It may take a while to adjust to the mellower, richer sound of skin. 

Edited by - tdennis on 02/16/2016 15:32:25

PGP - Posted - 02/16/2016:  15:31:46

My understanding is that as the skin soaks it absorbs water and swells. I let a skin soak for too long, 10 -15 minutes, and I had a very hard time getting the tension hoop over the skin. I don't think longer soaking time impacts the thickness once the skin has dried.  No expert here, but that was my experience.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/16/2016:  15:42:21

Just like plastic, thicker=muddier.  A thin, tight skin head cracks like a rifle--but you have to stay on top of the tension lest it break in dry heat.

pastorharry - Posted - 02/16/2016:  15:42:32

I have forwarded this thread to the "Hide Heads" group for further insight.

Crusty - Posted - 02/16/2016:  15:50:16

Get one of the Stern Tanning Premium heads.  Those are sanded to a thin and uniform thickness.

Tom Berghan - Posted - 02/16/2016:  16:55:57

The answer to you question is "No, the hide will not get thinner."  Many people assume hide heads cannot take the same tension as Mylar heads. That is not true - they can. Now, occasionally a hide head will rip but the cause is usually a defect in the hide, not that hide in general is weaker. Tighten that sucker up!  It will sound a lot better! If one of your hides rips then be happy that you discovered a defective hide. Hide is wonderful but it is not as uniform as plastic. When you get a good hide head it can last over 100 years. Mylar too, except the frosting can wear off of a frosted head. 

Bill H - Posted - 02/17/2016:  03:01:47

I recently put an old Jos A Rogers head on a Vega Senator I just acquired thinking it would be a nice authentic touch. The head was thick and produced a thin tone without much volume. Very disappointing. I swapped it with a much thinner head I purchased form Bob Smakula and it was night and day. The Senator now has a nice bright crisp sound and good volume. I can't address the durability of one over another, but my take is that  thicker is muddier, thinner is brighter and louder. And of course, there may be a difference depending on the banjo itself. The trouble with experimenting with skin heads is that it is so labor intensive and takes several days of drying before you can hear what you have. Then, if you don't get the crown height just right you need to start all over. Like anything, I guess it takes some practice.

banjobarbarian - Posted - 02/17/2016:  03:43:07

I have 2 Stern hide heads that came from JDBalch here on the hangout. I specifically ask for heads that were both thin and a consistent thickness. The heads both sound great, but as mentioned, be ready to tighten the head past what you might initially think is required. The tone is cool, not plunky.

While you might not be in the market for a new head, I would suggest chatting with JDBalch.

carlb - Posted - 02/17/2016:  05:53:54

I prefer thin heads (0.15-0.25 mm thick) and get sounds that are clear with good sustain. For example, in double D, I often hit the open 4th string and let it ring as a low drone. As you use thicker heads, i.e. especially 0.4 mm, the sounds get more plunky.

ClayTech - Posted - 02/17/2016:  10:41:47

I sanded down the goat head I am currently using. I purchased a full goat skin, large enough to get two 12" heads out of it, but it wasn't cleaned up all that well. I first sanded down the backside with a palm sander to remove any thick spots where the fatty layer(?) hadn't been cleaned off well enough. Then, once installed on the banjo rim and fully dried, I taped off the inside edge of the tension hoop to protect it and sanded down the top until it was thin enough to give me the sound I wanted. With the head under tension it sands very easily.