cackalacky - Posted - 02/01/2016:  10:49:24

I play clawhammer OT and have plenty of exposure to it.  I also dance Cajun and Zydeco and enjoy the music.  Does anyone use clawhammer for these types of music of southern Louisiana?  Here in western NC, it is pretty much clawhammer for OT and Scrugg's style for bluegrass.  Any youtube videos I could check out?  What keys are common..I assume the key is set by the button accordians when they are in the band?  I know Dirk Powell plays both these styles, but I haven't seen nor heard him use his banjo for the Cajun music.

Thanks

BanjoBelle - Posted - 02/01/2016:  12:29:50

Funny you should ask this as I was wondering the same thing. I know there's cajun fiddlers out there,which made me wonder about the banjo. It shouldn't be that hard to arrange a cajun tune for banjo in TAB.....

Scott Barnbilly56 - Posted - 02/01/2016:  13:47:39

I go to Cajun jams thru the summer . The Wheatland festival up here in Michigan is my favorite for festival for Cajun jams and they have 2 festivals a year I attend . I'm not an expert and just sharing my experiences and love those jams . There pretty basic the ones I go to and a lot are just 2 chords so got lots of room to do fills in . The squeeze boxes they usually used are a C and also a D so double C and double D go nice with these . I like to get right next to the fiddlers on these and easy to follow . Fun stuff ....
Good subject also .
Scott

pappy c - Posted - 02/01/2016:  13:49:09

I grew up in south Louisiana around Cajun music. Never heard a banjo used. That is not to say it is not done. The fiddle is a big part of it and few "outsiders " really ever master the true feel, sound, and technique. I don't see why you couldn't work the tunes up for banjo. I do believe you would be on target with claw hammer style if it was to work. You may be on to something really unique. Develop it, record it. You may become the king of Cajun banjo. I do know that the people in south Louisiana would love it.

banjoak - Posted - 02/01/2016:  14:05:59

Al Tharp playing with Beausoleil

Scott Barnbilly56 - Posted - 02/01/2016:  14:35:11

Thank you Pappy
I love to try new things and the number one thing that goes thru my head is to figure out how to make things work out and fit in . I love the challenge and have been complemented many times on a lot of the unique style's I do . When I post on here with response's I got a lot of critics' but that's the fun of a public forum that everyone has an opinion . I just had a jam here at my house this last Sunday and one of the Cajun fiddler's from Wheatland music festival was here playing in our jam group and playing Cajun songs .So this is an example of how I fall into things like that . Now maybe a banjo isn't a true Cajun instrument but if it works and sounds good why not and your talking to Mr. Super open minder to the giant world of music out there . Would love to join in and play along with those folks down there folks down there in Louisiana .

KnarfEK - Posted - 02/01/2016:  14:45:53

Yes! Another vote for cajun clawhammer info, examples and tabs!

jonredmond - Posted - 02/01/2016:  15:44:26

Dirk Powell, while not really a Cajun musician is heavily influenced by the music of Louisiana where he lives. He plays a mean clawhammer banjo as well as the Cajun  squeeze box and other instruments. Give him a listen.

g3zdm - Posted - 02/01/2016:  15:59:29

 At our regular cajun sessions here in Manchester (UK) we often have two 5-string banjoists - myself playing modified Scruggs and 3 finger melodic and an (experienced) clawhammer player. This works out pretty well, especially if \I play up the neck whilst he plays down or vice versa.

 There are only generally 2 rhythms, waltz and 2-step so pretty easy on that front.

 (I also play in a regular cajun band with banjo usually miked up or plugged in. 2 of my banjos have pickups. Because of the non chromatic nature of the cajun accordions, everything is in the key of G or C - both very banjo-friendly keys).. 

 Chris Muriel, Manchester, UK

banjo bill-e - Posted - 02/01/2016:  16:51:51

I'd sure love to hear some!

doryman - Posted - 02/01/2016:  17:33:11

It's been done. I heard about this one cajun, Ole Boudreaux from Thibodaux, Louisiana. He left home to see the world and somewhere along the road he learned to play cajun tunes on the banjo. Unfortunately, he came upon hard times and the only job he could find was playing banjo for the house band at one of those seedy brothels in Nevada. He was so ashamed of himself he told his mother he was playing the piano there.

dennism - Posted - 02/01/2016:  17:43:19

Now this is just me, but it seems like a lot of Cajun music is shouted, that the tune gets lost. Notwithstanding, I tabbed this out...I'd love to hear some comments.

Jolie Blonde

Brooklynbanjoboy - Posted - 02/01/2016:  17:58:13

We're talking about this tune, right? In this case, I'd say that the challenge in clawhammer for cajun might amount to what we're confronted with in trying to render waltz music into down picking form.

hughstrawn - Posted - 02/02/2016:  04:42:05

I made an attempt to incorporate clawhammer into Cajun music in the March 2013 issue of the BNL. Can't seem to post a TablEdit tab here but it is available on my web page at ozarksbanjo.com/file-archive-03-14.html  Be aware that some Cajun accordion players tend to 'stray' a bit from the AABB that we are used to--a few 5 or 6 beat measures thrown in randomly, a much varied 'melody' line, etc. When I asked a local Cajun accordion player to explain, he commented that once they 'get going' they just make it up as they go along. Great music and a perfect rhythm for clawhammer on lots of their tunes/songs. I'll have another "attempt" coming up in mid 2016 column. (and to clarify; I haven't actively participated in playing with a band or group--just listened and learned--but I believe it would be an enjoyable challenge.)

Zischkale - Posted - 02/02/2016:  07:02:25

For a time BHO user johnpatrick307 had a Cajun Clawhammer blog (2ftlbanjer linked to it, but it's gone now) -- he might have some tips on where to look. A year or so ago he referred me to the attached tab, another version of Jolie Blonde.

Jolie Blonde

Don Huber - Posted - 02/02/2016:  11:09:23

Again, there is more to OT banjo than clawhammer...do what the tune calls for; not what the guy at Clawclone Camp says!!!

janolov - Posted - 02/02/2016:  11:34:17

There are two tab examples in this thread, but both are rather advanced, and is based upon playing note by note as the fiddle. I almost think they really want to show how difficult is to play Clawhammer Cajun.

I have a idea to simplify the playing. Round Peak style is an excellent example where the banjo supports the fiddle by just playing important melody notes and filling up the rhythm with ASPOs and drop thumbs. Wade Ward is an other example of banjo player who played a very "economic" style, but really got the heart of the music. I think someone should try to think in those terms and make a playable arrangement.

And. as Don Huber said above "there is more to OT than clawhammer". 

hughstrawn - Posted - 02/02/2016:  12:00:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by janolov

 

There are two tab examples in this thread, but both are rather advanced, and is based upon playing note by note as the fiddle. I almost think they really want to show how difficult is to play Clawhammer Cajun.

I have a idea to simplify the playing. Round Peak style is an excellent example where the banjo supports the fiddle by just playing important melody notes and filling up the rhythm with ASPOs and drop thumbs....

I think someone should try to think in those terms and make a playable arrangement.

 

---

An excellent suggestion janolov.  If someone who understands/plays/tabs Round Peak style would translate the tabs into that style, it would probably help many of us (me especially) see and understand the differences. The examples were, I'm sure, NOT written to show how difficult it is to play Cajun in that style but to demonstrate how it may be played in that 'notier' style (which to some, I'd hope, did make sense to them). Volunteers???  thanx.....hugh

(in general, I guess have never fully 'understood' Round Peak style (although I like it) and I'm thinking now, after writing the above, that I've never seen a tune tabbed in Round Peak, and (another (say my)) style, side by side so I could actually hear and see the distinct differences. It would give me something to hang my hat on, so to say)

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 02/02/2016:  12:34:35

I first learned this on harmonica. Then I played it on harmonica and washboard, backing up a fiddle player. Then I worked out this banjo part to replace the washboard to play it on my own, but I actually found the banjo and harmonica too hard to play together on this at the time. My playing has apparently improved over the years so I can do it now. 

Ken Perlman used my arrangement of this in his 1983 "Clawhammer Style Banjo" book (at p. 137), though he changed it slightly on the last line.

VIDEO: Ambiguous Armadillo - Le Stomp du Bosco (click to view)

janolov - Posted - 02/02/2016:  12:37:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by hstrawn

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by janolov

 

There are two tab examples in this thread, but both are rather advanced, and is based upon playing note by note as the fiddle. I almost think they really want to show how difficult is to play Clawhammer Cajun.

I have a idea to simplify the playing. Round Peak style is an excellent example where the banjo supports the fiddle by just playing important melody notes and filling up the rhythm with ASPOs and drop thumbs....

I think someone should try to think in those terms and make a playable arrangement.

 

---

An excellent suggestion janolov.  If someone who understands/plays/tabs Round Peak style would translate the tabs into that style, it would probably help many of us (me especially) see and understand the differences. The examples were, I'm sure, NOT written to show how difficult it is to play Cajun in that style but to demonstrate how it may be played in that 'notier' style (which to some, I'd hope, did make sense to them). Volunteers???  thanx.....hugh

(in general, I guess have never fully 'understood' Round Peak style (although I like it) and I'm thinking now, after writing the above, that I've never seen a tune tabbed in Round Peak, and (another (say my)) style, side by side so I could actually hear and see the distinct differences. It would give me something to hang my hat on, so to say)

---

I didn't mean to focus on Round Peak style. I gave it as an example that you don't have to compete with the fiddle, but more to support the fiddle. I think that even the Hugh Strawn style may work in a Cajun context. Just strip off 50 % or more of the fiddle notes and keep the banjo rhythm.

rudy - Posted - 02/02/2016:  13:56:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by cackalacky

I play clawhammer OT and have plenty of exposure to it.  I also dance Cajun and Zydeco and enjoy the music.  Does anyone use clawhammer for these types of music of southern Louisiana?  Here in western NC, it is pretty much clawhammer for OT and Scrugg's style for bluegrass.  Any youtube videos I could check out?  What keys are common..I assume the key is set by the button accordians when they are in the band?  I know Dirk Powell plays both these styles, but I haven't seen nor heard him use his banjo for the Cajun music.

Thanks

---

I've played cajun / zydeco in bands for 20 years and have a deep appreciation of the music.  There's nothing stopping anyone from using clawhammer other than tradition, and I've watched folks like Dirk Powell intersperse banjo with cajun / creole music.  I've attended two different years where Dirk taught and performed at the week-long Balfa camp in LA.

I occasionally play two finger versions of songs like Lacassine Special for my own enjoyment, and find it works well.  The guy in our band that plays accordion has a few different keys, but many tunes are actually played "cross key" on diatonic button accordion, so often a C box is used in the key of G.

Cedric Watson has one album out that utilizes clawhammer on several selections to back up his Creole fiddle playing.  Here's an example:

Also check out Cedric's Cochon du Lait which as a convoluted route into the Cajun vernacular by way of Tommy Jerrell.

youtu.be/cGuvDf3TEYk

Edited by - rudy on 02/02/2016 14:10:34

northwoodspicker - Posted - 02/02/2016:  14:09:26

That's some mighty fine playing there Marc N.

rudy - Posted - 02/02/2016:  14:15:46

As said, Nice version of Bosco Stomp, Marc!  Another example of how easily the Cajun / Creole catalog transfers over to banjo.

hweinberg - Posted - 02/02/2016:  16:17:27

Just when I was thinking that there's a reason I take my guitar to Cajun jams and leave my banjo home, Marc shows me how wrong I have been (at least wrong if I could play half as well as Marc).  Is that a 14", Marc? --Howard

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 02/02/2016:  16:24:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by hweinberg

 

Just when I was thinking that there's a reason I take my guitar to Cajun jams and leave my banjo home, Marc shows me how wrong I have been (at least wrong if I could play half as well as Marc).  Is that a 14", Marc? --Howard

---

Thanks Howard!

It's a 13" Romero. I keep it tuned a tone and a half low, because it loves the low register. That makes Bosco Stomp come out in E (while using G fingering) which happens to be the right key for my voice. (Also, I get to use an A harmonica cross-keyed, which is also a really good harmonica for this.)

jojo25 - Posted - 02/02/2016:  17:28:08

I did it...once...I was at the Sugar Maple Fest in Madison, Wi. I was at a planned OT session and I just stayed put after and a Cajun session...planned...started...it was fun...it is all about getting the backbeat right...the cajun box player sitting next to me thought it was fine

rudy - Posted - 02/02/2016:  18:28:21

If anyone listened to Cedric Watson's "Cochon du Lait" here's another much more clawhammer version by Matt and Tom Turino from one of their CDbaby offerings:

cdbaby.com/cd/tomandmattturino

jenorma1 - Posted - 02/04/2016:  10:24:18

The red stick ramblers are a really great Cajun band - I bought their album "my suitcase is always packed" (which is otherwise banjo-free) and was surprised to hear clawhammer prominantly featured on the song Nonc' Yorick (La Bataille de 1916):

youtube.com/watch?v=EzEy6RtQcVY

Not sure who's playing banjo but it is stellar and it goes really really well with the fiddle and triangle!!

rudy - Posted - 02/04/2016:  11:21:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by jenorma1

 

The red stick ramblers are a really great Cajun band - I bought their album "my suitcase is always packed" (which is otherwise banjo-free) and was surprised to hear clawhammer prominantly featured on the song Nonc' Yorick (La Bataille de 1916):

youtube.com/watch?v=EzEy6RtQcVY

Not sure who's playing banjo but it is stellar and it goes really really well with the fiddle and triangle!!

---

I don't have the credits in front of me, but my guess is Eric Frey.  Members of The Red Stick Ramblers later melded into the Revelers.

revelersband.com/eric-frey/

Eric also plays the clawhammer banjo on the earlier referenced cuts by Cedric Watson.

valcourrecords.com/cds/cedric-watson

Edited by - rudy on 02/04/2016 11:25:10

jenorma1 - Posted - 02/04/2016:  12:09:31

Wow "cochan du lait" is just fantastic!!  I may try to pick that one out when I get home.

Thanks for the info on the Revelers - I kinda forgot about the red stick ramblers until I read this forum - really fantastic group of musicians and I have a feeling I'm going to like most of what I hear out of the Revelers as well!

dennism - Posted - 02/04/2016:  17:14:59

"cochon du lait" means "suckling pig"

I suppose "red stick" is used instead of "baton rouge"

Can't explain it but "ramblers" pops up in the name of lots of Cajun and zydeco groups

rudy - Posted - 02/04/2016:  17:26:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by dennism

 

"cochon du lait" means "suckling pig"



I suppose "red stick" is used instead of "baton rouge"



Can't explain it but "ramblers" pops up in the name of lots of Cajun and zydeco groups

---

"Sucking pig in milk".  It's an actual recipe, but not one I'd be serving regularly!

My guess is Ramblers was adopted as a simple moniker to describe many bands that had a reputation of traveling around a great deal to gather enough work to be considered gainfully employed.  

Edited by - rudy on 02/04/2016 17:33:56

BobTheGambler - Posted - 02/05/2016:  05:31:10

The "Ramblers" naming convention probably started with the Hackberry Ramblers.

agent369 - Posted - 02/05/2016:  09:21:39

I've always had a little trouble pinpointing cajun for some reason, but to me this by June Drucker certainly has that cajun feel, to me. Thoughts?youtube.com/watch?v=d47tDgLTqF...zc3GJx1Fq

dennism - Posted - 02/05/2016:  19:56:43

I think the thing that sets it apart the most is the accordion, usually the button type diatonic squeeze box with a limited range. The singers seem to have to sing at the top of their range, above their comfort zone, and to compensate, they shout. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the shouting also has a lot to do with the early practitioners having no amplifiers.

But it has the same kind of drive clawhammer gets. It seems to me.

rudy - Posted - 02/06/2016:  07:10:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by BobTheGambler

 

The "Ramblers" naming convention probably started with the Hackberry Ramblers.

---

Pete, There's a history of bands incorporating "Ramblers" that pre-dates the Hackberrys by at least a decade.  My dad's band "rambled" around the southeast as "Arnold Lester's Mountain Ramblers" in the mid-thirties, but a much earlier example would be the Tennessee Ramblers, circa mid-20's.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Ramblers_(Tennessee_band)

My suspicion is it goes back farther than that.

Here's Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers from 1926:

youtu.be/U8cIKeRoKh4

Edited by - rudy on 02/06/2016 07:18:59

rudy - Posted - 02/06/2016:  07:53:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by agent369

I've always had a little trouble pinpointing cajun for some reason, but to me this by June Drucker certainly has that cajun feel, to me. Thoughts?youtube.com/watch?v=d47tDgLTqF...zc3GJx1Fq

---

It Does.

"Cajun fiddle style" and most old time bears a lot of similarity because of the predominant use of double stops.  The use of double stops adds a much fuller sound due to the harmony and is also slightly higher in volume, both great attributes when playing music to accompany dancers.  Some of the earliest recordings I've heard featured only fiddle accompanied with "te Fer" (literal translation, "little iron"), a.k.a. triangle.

The next step in the progression was certainly the introduction of the single row diatonic accordion, and instrument that could be purchased through the mail order catalogs and was ideal as accompaniment for dancers due to it's use of 4 reeds per note, producing a commanding volume for dancers to hear.  Most of these accordions were produced by a few companies based in Germany and those sources dried up after WW2 due to the factories closing as a result of bombing.

The lack of availability of accordions spawned the birth of an entire cottage industry in Louisiana, with most accordions used in Cajun music today coming from a few well-known builders today.  At one time I had a list of over 50 small shop builders producing accordions in Louisiana.  Accordion building in LA is very much like the efforts of many small builders of fine banjos, and that's a good thing.

Although many of the older recordings did feature "high and slightly strained" singing styles, that's not evident in the many fine bands heard today.  I believe that it may have been partially responsible from singers who had vocal range that was not a good match for the usual key of C accordions, but may have also been due as a response of the vocal style being parallel to the newly accepted forms of recorded music, Bluegrass in particular.

Styles change over time, and the availability of accordions in other keys and songs played and sung in "cross key" and not the tonic have had the effect of recordings that are much easier to listen to.  The music is continually evolving, and today there is a lot of cross-pollination of styles, with Creole, Cajun, and Zydeco being melded together.  There's a long history of Western Swing also being assimilated into the Cajun culture, the Hackberry Ramblers being the prime example.  That continues today with steel guitar being observed in Cajun bands fairly often.

Some traditionalists don't think this cross-integration of musical styles is wise, but music without change is doomed to be side-noted as a historical reference in general culture.

JLouis - Posted - 02/07/2016:  02:33:17

I used to play steel guitar with a cajun  trio and always did some numbers with the banjo. The banjo fits quite well in tunes like "Danse des Mardi Gras" and various dorian modal songs as it does with appalachian music but in dancing context playing the banjo can become challenging for some rythmic reasons. Though lot of tunes are played with only two chords I and IV, simple major ones or heavy bluesy minor 7th, three fingers picking or clawhammer needs some work to stick to the music, and three fingers rarely is the best choice.

I love arranging cajun tunes for banjo solo in clawhammer, it makes perfect parlor style music. This is a quick and dirty recorded example: La Valse de Kaplan.

La Valse de Kaplan

BobTheGambler - Posted - 02/13/2016:  07:11:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by BobTheGambler

 

The "Ramblers" naming convention probably started with the Hackberry Ramblers.

---

Pete, There's a history of bands incorporating "Ramblers" that pre-dates the Hackberrys by at least a decade.  My dad's band "rambled" around the southeast as "Arnold Lester's Mountain Ramblers" in the mid-thirties, but a much earlier example would be the Tennessee Ramblers, circa mid-20's.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Ramblers_(Tennessee_band)

My suspicion is it goes back farther than that.

Here's Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers from 1926:

youtu.be/U8cIKeRoKh4

 

---

I was referring to cajun groups using "ramblers", not old-time stringbands.

rudy - Posted - 02/13/2016:  13:15:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by BobTheGambler

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by BobTheGambler

 The "Ramblers" naming convention probably started with the Hackberry Ramblers.

---

Pete, There's a history of bands incorporating "Ramblers" that pre-dates the Hackberrys by at least a decade.  My dad's band "rambled" around the southeast as "Arnold Lester's Mountain Ramblers" in the mid-thirties, but a much earlier example would be the Tennessee Ramblers, circa mid-20's.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Ramblers_(Tennessee_band)

My suspicion is it goes back farther than that.

Here's Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers from 1926:

youtu.be/U8cIKeRoKh4 

---

I was referring to cajun groups using "ramblers", not old-time stringbands.

---

Me, too.

My point was the Hackberrys were playing all across the south as touring musicians and as such there would have been a distinct tendancy to adopt the naming conventions from other bands that weren't specifically Cajun.  It could be argued that the Hackberrys were such a part of this cross-cultural pollinization that they could have been considered as much early country or even early western swing rather than Cajun.

cackalacky - Posted - 02/18/2016:  18:00:47

Thanks for all the informative replys. Nice variety of perspectives and experiences. This is what is powerful about the Hangout.

calden - Posted - 02/28/2016:  16:32:09

Here ya go.  The Duhks, Down To The River.  I just played this on my weekly radio show and remembered this thread.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5y1Lye0Xs1w

Carlos

rudy - Posted - 02/28/2016:  20:42:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by calden

 

Here ya go.  The Duhks, Down To The River.  I just played this on my weekly radio show and remembered this thread.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5y1Lye0Xs1w

 Carlos

---

Good call, Carlos.  Down to the River is penned by Keith Frank.  I've seen members of the Frank family band play street dances in St. Martinville and my Black Lab, Mr. Preston, is named after Preston Frank, the patriarch of the Family.

rudy - Posted - 02/29/2016:  10:15:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by calden

 

Here ya go.  The Duhks, Down To The River.  I just played this on my weekly radio show and remembered this thread.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5y1Lye0Xs1w

 Carlos

---

Good call, Carlos.  Down to the River is penned by Keith Frank.  I've seen members of the Frank family band play street dances in St. Martinville and my Black Lab, Mr. Preston, is named after Preston Frank, the patriarch of the Family.

---

It's always interesting to trace the path of tunes, here's another Duhks cover of Down to the River where they introduce the tune and relate it was written by Preston Frank and they picked it up from Donna The Buffalo.

Donna the Buffalo's guitar player (Jim Miller) also works as a guitar player with the Franks when they tour, so it's easy to see how all these tunes get spread around.

youtu.be/D9WZ0kH-u_s