gardensindesert - Posted - 12/26/2015:  15:31:46

I was searching in the archive about how to make your own capo for the 5th string. I had already made a pen cap type and it works, but It isn't that great. I recently tried to make a bone nut from a bbq beef rib (after reading where someone said that the meat department at your grocery is where to get cow bone....) Well, we were actually having bbq ribs, so I tried to saw a nut blank with a hacksaw but the bone area was too narrow. So I decided to make a little peg that you wedge under the string to be a bone nut for the 5th string out of the blank for the Capo. It works! I used a hacksaw, a vice grip, and sandpaper. Bone is pretty. Here is the link from the search in the archives to revive it. Here are photographs of the finished Peg Nut Capo.

banjohangout.org/archive/205962

steve davis - Posted - 12/26/2015:  15:52:57

I like the spikes because I can't lose them and they never fall off.

rudy - Posted - 12/26/2015:  16:04:13

Laura, very nice!  You can get rid of the part sticking out if you wish, it's not that difficult to slide a capo or pull the string up to release it.  A sliding capo can stay at the sixth fret and you can drop the fifth  half step to make up for it.

Dan Drabek - Posted - 12/26/2015:  16:05:14

I think it would work well for old-timey players who don't often fret the fifth string. The extra height of the string off the fretboard requires more pressure to fret it. For melodic style, that would be a handicap. I know it's about the same height as the other four strings, but it's much shorter, so the string tension will greater compared to it's neighboring strings. It will also affect the pitch.

DD

gardensindesert - Posted - 12/26/2015:  16:47:39

Steve, I appreciate your input. I don't know who would install one here in Las Vegas, but maybe down the line I will get one. I need to get really good to justify the fear of having one installed!

Rudy your capo is streamline, very nice looking!

Dan, what you say is right on. I am newly crossing over from self taught 3 finger picking style to clawhammer and I just learned a new old tune and had to change to double C tuning and capo it to play Angeline the Baker. I have a lot to learn!

Thank you for your input everyone! I appreciate the expansive knowledge you all share!

Dan Drabek - Posted - 12/26/2015:  16:52:52

Here's a tip Steve...f you drill a hole through it and attach it to your key ring, it's less likely that you'll lose it. Plus, the dangling keys will add some percussion to your playing  :->

DD

Bowtieguy - Posted - 12/26/2015:  17:16:59

I just can't even imagine those not getting in the way.

oldtimefolkie - Posted - 12/26/2015:  17:18:01

Seems like these types of 5th string capos would be good for banjos strung with nylon strings. I'm guessing rail road spikes would cut the nylons pretty easily.

Cool!

rudy - Posted - 12/26/2015:  17:27:34

quote:

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Originally posted by oldtimefolkie



Seems like these types of 5th string capos would be good for banjos strung with nylon strings. I'm guessing rail road spikes would cut the nylons pretty easily.



Cool!

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I've a spike guy and use them with Aquila nylguts and Reds with no problem.

Many other capo devices do tend to be a little cumbersome, but not generally a problem if you don't fret the fifth string.

oldtimefolkie - Posted - 12/26/2015:  17:36:05

Thanks Rudy!

BrentSims - Posted - 12/26/2015:  17:40:00

quote:

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Originally posted by gardensindesert

Well, we were actually having bbq ribs, so I tried to saw a nut blank with a hacksaw but the bone area was too narrow. So I decided to make a little peg that you wedge under the string to be a bone nut for the 5th string out of the blank for the Capo.  

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Diner and a capo. If that ain't one for the annals of BHO history, I don't know what is.

Brent

Paul R - Posted - 12/26/2015:  18:32:42

That's a good original idea! I just wonder - what's the price of beef out your way? 

I made these capos from guitar bridge pins - not my idea originally (Lee Callicutt, BHO name Sultans of Claw, posted photos several months before I made mine). The string slot fits over the fret and you cut a groove for the fifth string. They're cheap, easy to make, and, if losing them is an issue, you could take thread and tie them to the fifth string tuner. That said, I have two banjos with sliding capos, and the one banjo that I would use these on, I simply tune the fifth string up two frets. I also have an elastic fifth string capo that works well.

Fifth String Bridge Pin Capo

Fifth String Bridge Pin Capo

Fifth String Bridge Pin Capo

gardensindesert - Posted - 12/26/2015:  19:22:03

Paul! Awesome! I saw a flower in the design of the one I made, Sometimes these visions just have to be made is all. I haven't figured out how to execute the flower, so I sit and wait for a signal.....

steve davis - Posted - 12/27/2015:  05:38:03

No reason for a spike to cut anything if it's all smoothed up,Warren.
I'm a "more is less" on these things.

A poorly installed spike is worse than none.

Aradobanjo - Posted - 12/27/2015:  07:19:52

Hello,

Having used spikes, pen caps, Sidewinder, Eagle Claws, and Banjo Highway, I have stopped on Banjo Highway. The new design of the Banjo Highway reduces string slapping in the channel. The good part is the sticky tape attachment to the pot for storage. This makes it convenient.

Hooking a finger on a spike is never fun and it slows down the playing. Spikes do break off and must be fixed. Pen caps flip off if one its too aggressive or digs too deeply.   Clamp designs are good for a while. Clamping options twist over time. Metal fatigues. Mass is a help and a hindrance. Storage and application time is the biggest challenge. The case is not near you and any pocked winds up getting multiple items placed in it.  

G#/Ab and C are the problem areas for every none drilled option. The Banjo Highway's current design is where mass works in G#/Ab and ok for C. Fret board slapping is the biggest drawback for every non clamping design.  

If having a pristine-non-drilled fret board is your goal, then having options (including your own) is welcomed. 

gardensindesert - Posted - 12/27/2015:  13:05:37

I really liked Rudy's design on the streamline piece that looks like ebony. Here is the bone one inspired by it's design.

5th String Capo inspired by Rudy's Photo

Aradobanjo - Posted - 12/27/2015:  13:47:06

Hello,

Nice! I would thin it out. The F and D shaped chords may knock it about. 

gardensindesert - Posted - 12/27/2015:  14:30:39

Thanks Aradobanjo. I think you are right. I have to test it for sure!

Ken LeVan - Posted - 12/27/2015:  18:06:38

I am in the middle of reading "America's Instrument",which I got for Christmas"

amazon.com/Americas-Instrument...807824844

It's a great book, which I can't recommend highly enough. In the book, you can see things we all take for granted being slowly developed, with each small innovation being patented,and reading the book gives you a window into the development of the instrument as we know it.

The problem of capoing the 5th string is a more "modern" problem and something that has been fooled with over the years - probably some ideas have been patented.

If I was teaching Industrial design in some college, I might assign it as a "problem", but I would most likely be able to anticipate the proposed solutions, as many have wrestled with this before me.

In my opinion, the "perfect solution" has yet to be found, and I think about it often at night in the "wee small hours of the morning".  Spikes are hard to beat because they are really cheap, easy to install, easy to use, can't lose 'em, they don't change the height of the 5th string, you can still capo it with your thumb. etc. (all of which represent the parameters of the problem).

I applaud anyone who works on this challenge and think it's worth pursuing. I wish I could come up with the ultimate solution.

Aradobanjo - Posted - 12/27/2015:  19:22:57

Hello,

All 5th string manipulation is a compromise. G#/Ab, B and C are the real pain areas of all solutions. These areas and beyond stretch the strings. On most banjos, the 5th string isn't parallel to the fret board. The ascending path is away from the fret board every fret. 

Using the Perfect Pitch Capo resets the path. I begin looking at its use beyond B.

Edited by - Aradobanjo on 12/27/2015 19:28:28

rudy - Posted - 12/28/2015:  01:01:55

quote:

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Originally posted by gardensindesert

 

I really liked Rudy's design on the streamline piece that looks like ebony. Here is the bone one inspired by it's design.

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X-cellent !!!

Helix - Posted - 12/28/2015:  06:17:09

Working simple is hard.



Rudy's solution is simple, clean and elegant, Ebony or Ivory. It's only one piece and less likely to get lost in the carpet. I have experience.



BUT............Your use of bone is a first, I think, haven't seen that before.



Rudy thinks things out and then thinks things in, inside out, upside down. His result is playable and useable.



I use all 6 spikes, not many do. In the dark, on stage, that's the challenge, you got mail and about 3 seconds.

I like your approach:  chance presents itself to the prepared mind.

Edited by - Helix on 12/28/2015 06:21:15

gardensindesert - Posted - 12/29/2015:  13:46:17

Ken, the book sounds cool. I went to a second hand shop and saw a wooden salad bowl for a banjo build down the road. I bet the book is really insightful for that reason. It sounds like it has other peoples ponderings with photos. Aradobanjo, thanks for recommending the perfect pitch, I'll look one up. Helix about the Spikes. I can see their relevance for speed especially on stage!

Ken LeVan - Posted - 12/29/2015:  14:28:11

quote:

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Originally posted by gardensindesert

 

Ken, the book sounds cool. I went to a second hand shop and saw a wooden salad bowl for a banjo build down the road. I bet the book is really insightful for that reason. It sounds like it has other peoples ponderings with photos. Aradobanjo, thanks for recommending the perfect pitch, I'll look one up. Helix about the Spikes. I can see their relevance for speed especially on stage!

 

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Welcome to the club! You are doing stuff that is really cool, operating at the leading edge, pushing the envelope. That's what we should all do. After reading "America's Instrument", I realize that's what they all did until the Mastertone patents expired.

 Here's a link to a blog from a guy who I went to industrial design school with. On the right hand side, you can see his version of a 5th string capo -not as good as your idea:

You ought to read his blog:

julianwinston.com/music/my_gra...banjo.php

I think you are on the right track, exploring things creatively.  We should all be creative rather than derivative.

gardensindesert - Posted - 12/29/2015:  18:06:20

Thoughtful of you to say Ken. That is an interesting design isn't it with the waves? Pretty fret board inlay too. I'll check out the blog.

gardensindesert - Posted - 12/31/2015:  19:58:07

Aradobanjo was right. I am working from a book and I had to do a slide and I rammed into the bottom of it. So it went back under the little hacksaw and is now shaped like a dove.

Removed some area now it's a dove

BNJOMAKR - Posted - 01/01/2016:  12:53:26

I like the dove look redesign!

Dan Drabek - Posted - 01/01/2016:  14:37:58

Pretty cute. 

DD

gardensindesert - Posted - 01/02/2016:  20:57:35

Thank you. This one is done. If more needs doing it is a whole new design from the start.

mike gregory - Posted - 01/03/2016:  11:42:26

Got to whittle me one of them birds.

Not a dove, though.

A swallow.

Because of the song.

"When the Swallows Come Back to CapoStringo"

gardensindesert - Posted - 01/14/2016:  19:55:08

I like your swallow. It is stylish. Do it man! Don't know the song.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/15/2016:  16:38:21

quote:

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Originally posted by gardensindesert

 

Aradobanjo was right. I am working from a book and I had to do a slide and I rammed into the bottom of it. So it went back under the little hacksaw and is now shaped like a dove.

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Absolutely wonderful!