Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 11/18/2015:  06:40:59

24.5" scale. Classic or Red Nylguts. Tuned to regular tunings (G, D, A, etc.). Anybody have that combo?

How is it? Strings too spagetti-like? Too tight and thin-sounding? Or just right?

chadp - Posted - 11/18/2015:  06:48:01

My banjo has a slightly shorter scale than regular and I find it's MOSTLY okay but the bass string is borderline unplayably floppy - ESPECIALLY in double-c tuning (which I use a lot)

thinking about trying a minstrel gauge set but also i don't want to modify nuts/bridges.

mbanza - Posted - 11/18/2015:  06:57:57

My scale is 24 inches and string diameters are 0.024 x 2, 0.029, 0.034, and 0.026w; about 10 to 12 pounds tension per string.  This works very well for me.  These are regular nylon strings, not Nylgut, but hopefully the info will be of help.

rudy - Posted - 11/18/2015:  07:11:48

I have a 23-1/2" and 25-1/2" that are currently strung or have had reds on them.

If you haven't used synthetics before do be aware that Nylguts of either type require some getting used to.  They play VERY easy, so if someone is a ham-handed player  they may not appreciate the feel.

I installed the new formulation reds about a month ago on my 23-1//2" scale and like them a lot.  The new formulation is a darker red, almost a brown, and is much different than the original reds.  They require much less stretching in, intonate far better, and most importantly, don't seem prone to random breakage.  They also tune up and down without needing the settling in time that standard classic nylguts often need, that's a really nice feature.  I also spike the new red fifth at the 7th with no problem, so that helps with avoiding breakage issues.

I've had no problem tuning the shorter scale up to A / D, my 25-1/2" would occasionally break either classic or reds if tuned to A / D, but my suspicions are the new reds might be better in that respect.

I would speculate that your 24-1/2" might do just fine in any tuning, including A / D.

All in all I think that Mimmo is finally putting out an acceptable synthetic with the new reds.  They have a much nicer tone than standard classics and have a better under the hand feel than previous versions, either classics or the older reds.  It would be really great if others have the same reaction because playing a good synthetic is a whole different thing than playing a steel strung banjo, and I mean that in the best of ways.  The sweet tone and buttery soft feel are nothing short of a joy to play as a solo instrument.

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 11/18/2015:  08:44:59

Great info.

And I don't have the 24.5" scale yet, rudy, but putting together plans to build it, so I can make it any scale I want--therefore the question. I want to make the scale ideal for regular nylgut type gauge strings tuned to regular tunings. I've tried the classics, and I now have the reds on my 25.5" scale, and they like to be 1/2 to 1 tone below "standard." That's where they feel and sound best. So I'm speculating that 24.5" might be well suited to come up one tone so I can play with others. Do you think I'm thinking correctly on this?

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 11/18/2015:  08:48:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by chadp

 

My banjo has a slightly shorter scale than regular and I find it's MOSTLY okay but the bass string is borderline unplayably floppy - ESPECIALLY in double-c tuning (which I use a lot)

thinking about trying a minstrel gauge set but also i don't want to modify nuts/bridges.

---

How much shorter?

rudy - Posted - 11/18/2015:  09:01:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Wilkerson

Great info.

And I don't have the 24.5" scale yet, rudy, but putting together plans to build it, so I can make it any scale I want--therefore the question. I want to make the scale ideal for regular nylgut type gauge strings tuned to regular tunings. I've tried the classics, and I now have the reds on my 25.5" scale, and they like to be 1/2 to 1 tone below "standard." That's where they feel and sound best. So I'm speculating that 24.5" might be well suited to come up one tone so I can play with others. Do you think I'm thinking correctly on this?

---

I think your instincts are spot on.  I find that the even shorter 23-1/2" satisfy those requirements for me.  It could be considered a compromise scale, since a bit longer would be ideal for lower tunings, but I like the ability to tune up for A / D without too much higher tension.

The nice thing about building them yourself is you can have as many as you want!

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 11/18/2015:  10:07:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Wilkerson

Great info.

And I don't have the 24.5" scale yet, rudy, but putting together plans to build it, so I can make it any scale I want--therefore the question. I want to make the scale ideal for regular nylgut type gauge strings tuned to regular tunings. I've tried the classics, and I now have the reds on my 25.5" scale, and they like to be 1/2 to 1 tone below "standard." That's where they feel and sound best. So I'm speculating that 24.5" might be well suited to come up one tone so I can play with others. Do you think I'm thinking correctly on this?

---

I think your instincts are spot on.  I find that the even shorter 23-1/2" satisfy those requirements for me.  It could be considered a compromise scale, since a bit longer would be ideal for lower tunings, but I like the ability to tune up for A / D without too much higher tension.

The nice thing about building them yourself is you can have as many as you want!

---

That helps. I had played around with the 25.5" scale banjo I have, just moving the bridge up an inch to see what happened, and it was really hard to be confident in what I was hearing, since other factors were now in play, like the bridge being closer to the center of the pot, the frets no longer noting true, etc. It helps to hear that what I'm thinking works for someone else. Thanks

The Doktor - Posted - 11/20/2015:  11:15:53

I have a set of Aquila reds on a 26 1/4" scale instrument and I love them.

They are "rubbery" in my (amateur) estimation. They are a materially different playing experience than steel strings, obviously.

My (chronic) breakage problems were solved by reading other threads here (sorry, no links) and using a cinch knot on the 1st and 5th strings. Next time I swap them out, I will use a cinch (on a smooth, Rickard no-knot tailpiece) on the 1st, 2nd and 5th strings to be extra sure.

I play mine soft, but also angry/hard and they respond beautifully. Love the sound of them over a goatskin head.

I also play Minstrel (Bell Boucher) and I can say, they are NOT the same. The minstrel strings are really bouncy/loose. The tension of the reds on a modern banjo is not comparable to the wet noodle tension of a minstrel banjo. However, I do find myself laying into the reds and being really hard on them, as if they might be rubbery minstrel strings, and they respond just great. No sign of trouble.

Admittedly, I did this just as a test (and was willing to break a string just to see how far I could go) and was doing it last night and the exercise just confirmed how much I love the reds. They have a tactile response (the surface is rough, not like steel strings) that is amazing. For a clumsy hack like me, this helps when thumb dropping/double thumbing because the thumb catches more easily on the string and the pluck is clearer and more even than when the lazy (clumsy and stupid) thumb is landing on steel (inaccurate, beginner-sloppy) and trying to walk around on those sweet melodic tunes I love at speed.

All in all, one of my instruments, with the John Balch head and the Nylguts, has been transformed and is my go to for melodic tunes in Double C.

Bufo Bill - Posted - 11/20/2015:  13:24:53

It's true that they sound especially good on hide heads.
All the best from Bill. :D

The Doktor - Posted - 11/20/2015:  14:17:19

I forgot to add:

"Floppy" and "spaghetti-like" are not anywhere near how I would describe them. I said "rubbery", but even that is misleading. With the Aquila Reds I've never had that minstrel 'Jo feeling - and certainly not in Double C (home base)