jack_beuthin - Posted - 10/20/2015:  20:17:45

After a six month wait, I received my new Dobson from Kevin last week.  I've been ecstatic to say the least.  I have finally settled down enough to record something.  More to come.

Edited by - jack_beuthin on 10/20/2015 20:23:14

Enoch Dobson 1

Magpie

jswkingsfield - Posted - 10/20/2015:  20:25:50

Congrats, looks and sounds wonderful! 

JimInAlabama - Posted - 10/20/2015:  20:46:45

That's good stuff Jack!  Good playin' on a great sounding banjo!

JanetB - Posted - 10/20/2015:  21:35:54

I'm excited for you!  Sounds great, Jack!

greenbrooms - Posted - 10/21/2015:  09:02:35

gorgeous! is that goat or calf skin head?

jack_beuthin - Posted - 10/21/2015:  09:15:12

Kevin, it is goatskin (a John Balch 4 star head).  John picked the skin and sent it to Kevin and it really makes a beautiful match. I did not see it until the banjo arrived.

Less obvious is the bridge, which Bart Veerman made. He recommended an untopped bridge made from his mystery wood, and he also nailed it.

Thanks all for your comments and kind words!  I may have worn out the first set of strings, and haven't had the banjo for a week!

jamesd - Posted - 10/21/2015:  12:27:03

Jack, that is a really good looking and nice sounding banjo.  I really like this sound,. very nice.

bhniko - Posted - 10/22/2015:  11:22:11

Jack,

Just received my Dobson Enoch...so beautifully made. Out of curiosity how did the Bart Veerman enhance your sound. I know it is hard to describe in words but give it a try. Thanks.

RV6 - Posted - 10/22/2015:  16:07:21

quote:

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Originally posted by jack_beuthin

 

  I may have worn out the first set of strings, and haven't had the banjo for a week!

---

Well, Jack, you'd better put some nylons on the Enoch 

jack_beuthin - Posted - 10/22/2015:  19:05:36

Bob, Maybe I need another Dobson to go with the nylon strings. Dang it, I thought that I had just cured BAS, or at least stemmed it for a while.

jack_beuthin - Posted - 10/22/2015:  19:25:18

bhniko,

Different bridges definitely affect the voice of the instrument.  What sounds best is largely a matter of preference.  I use Bart's bridges on all my instruments and I like his work a lot.  But, rather than telling you how I think they improve the sound, here are three recordings of Coleman's March, each with a different bridge (not all Bart's bridges).  The sound differences don't 100% get picked up by my recorder, but I still think you can hear differences between the bridges, even though they might be subtle.  I broke my nail minutes before I made these recordings, so I"m not quite hitting the strings as I normally would.  Nonetheless, I tried to play each recording as close to similar as I could.  You be the judge as to what you like best.  Then I will let you know which bridge is which.

Jack 

Coleman's March - Bridge A test

Coleman's March - Bridge B test

Coleman's March - Bridge C test

jack_beuthin - Posted - 10/22/2015:  19:46:49

bhniko,

I neglected to say congrats!  We must have been part of the same batch of Dobson builds.  I have an 11 inch rim with a cherry neck.  What did you get?

Jack

JanetB - Posted - 10/22/2015:  21:29:28

JanetB likes BridgeB best.  It's the most plunkity, yet clear to my ear.

mbuk06 - Posted - 10/23/2015:  05:17:15

Ooo, ooo bridge test! I love bridge tests! Darn it, frustratingly I'm at work and don't have earphones.

Fabulous looking banjo Jack. I'll give your bridge test a go after work. 

jack_beuthin - Posted - 10/23/2015:  05:58:22

Mike, I will reveal that none of the bridges are made from 14th Century frame wood from Wells Cathedral. 

Also, to your earlier question: I was at the jam in Boulder on Wednesday night.  The Dobson held its own even with about a dozen other musicians, including 3 other banjos.  It's not loud, but it's distinctive voice seems not to get "lost in the crowd." At least, I could still hear myself playing, which is not always the case in jams with 10+ players.

RV6 - Posted - 10/23/2015:  06:16:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by jack_beuthin

 

Bob, Maybe I need another Dobson to go with the nylon strings. Dang it, I thought that I had just cured BAS, or at least stemmed it for a while.

---

Glad to help out any way I can

bhniko - Posted - 10/23/2015:  11:12:46

Jack,

Thanks for taking the time to do the bridge test. I prefer 2,3,1 in order. Bridge 2 seems to make the notes a bit rounder and fuller. Janet also has a better ear than I so I feel my decision is correct but not influenced by her choice. I will eagerly await the makers of the bridges.

My Enoch is made of walnut with 12" pot as I prefer a softer sound. Although I have a Balch head on my Goodtime Special I left the choice up to Kevin. I was delightfully surprised that the head was white and so slightly mottled. As I am not wonderfully skilled nor tried making music files I will forgoe a sample. Kevin says his bridge is made in Germany, beautifully  and white stained. Not sure if this was tinted specially as it blends in with the head so nicely. It has a full sound but maybe a tad bright. That's why I am interested in your bridge demos.

JimInAlabama - Posted - 10/23/2015:  11:52:28

Yep B - C - A.  A sounded a little thin compared to the other two.  Hard to tell in a recording but B seemed to have a little something extra over C.

mbuk06 - Posted - 10/24/2015:  01:52:34

Jack, subtle indeed; on first listening I couldn't hear any difference that I didn't attribute to the recording. Just the nice overall sound of your banjo and pickin;. I listened again to all three and all I can offer is that something makes me (marginally) prefer B and C to A. To say that I even more marginally prefer C to B is probably fanciful. Will be interesting to find out if there are significant differences in the bridges i.e wood type, top and three-foot or solid foot.

jack_beuthin - Posted - 10/24/2015:  07:00:45

Ok then folks, let's find out who the mystery bridges really are.

First,  here is my opinion. I would go with B as the best sounding bridge, both from the recordings and listening to my live playing.  To me, A and B were more similar to one another than either one was to C.  So my order of preference is B, A, then C.

One thing is probably true.  With a quality instrument that it set up well, no bridge is going to make it sound bad.  Certain bridges, however, might enhance the tone/voice.  In this case, all five of us preferred Bridge B, even if it was marginal.  This perhaps gives some credibility to this not being 100% subjective (small sample set though).

So, here its is: all three bridges were three footers.  Bridges A and B were 5/8, untopped, mystery wood bridges made by Bart Veerman.  The only difference was that bridge A was a standard weight (Bart's A weight) and bridge B was a little beefier (Bart's B weight). Bridge C was an 9/16, ebony topped, maple, no-name bridge.

Interestingly, bridge B is my all around favorite bridge.  It seems to create a very likable sound on most of my banjos, even if it is marginally better.  Being a heavier stock, it darkens the tone a bit and adds to the plunk, as Janet noted.  It has a bigger effect on 11 inch rims that on 12 inch rims.  As a side note, I have a standard weight ebony topped, mystery wood Bart Veerman bridge on my 12 inch Ome Flora that seems to work nicely with the John Balch goatskin head, so that is the one exception.

Bridge A was the bridge I had made for the Dobson.  Last night, I changed strings on the Dobson.  I changed the first, second and third strings to a slightly lighter gauge to ease up the string tension a bit.  I did a bridge swap between A and B (the two Veerman bridges) and for some reason bridge A emerged as the winner. Again, both sounded good but this time A seemed to enhance the chimey ring a bit more.

So, back to bhniko's original question, on these wonderful Enoch Dobsons, you could probably use a twig as a bridge and the instrument would still have that special sound (although maybe a bit too much "plunk").  Beyond that, some bridges will darken or lighten the tone, depending on a whole range of variables.  With respect to bridges themselves, I find that bridge weight tends to be a "significant" factor when splitting hairs.  Everything else (wood type, topped vs. untopped, # of legs, etc). might matter depending on the the rest of your set up.

If you like what you have, then leave it alone and play the banjer.  If you are a "consummate banjo tinkerer" and have a little spare cash, well then that is just part of the fun.

Bhniko, I will say this.  If I am going to tinker, the first item I would change would be the head.  That will probably have the biggest impact.  I prefer skin heads, if they are prepped well.  Some folks love the Ren heads, some love the Fiberskin (me, not as much).  Regardless of preference, skin vs synthetic will produce a different sound.  After that, messing with things like bridges, tailpieces and the like is more akin to fine tweaking.

Any other thoughts out there?

Thanks everyone for participating!  Now back to playing...

Edited by - jack_beuthin on 10/24/2015 07:09:21

bhniko - Posted - 10/25/2015:  09:38:12

Really enjoyed your bridge comparisons and it helped me in that I know the sound that I prefer which was the B. I have a goat skin on my Enoch but felt it was a tad bright as compared with your B bridge. When you mention that the bridge has more effect on a 11" rather than a 12" that was interesting as I thought it would work the same on both. I don't mind tinkering as I have a Balch goat head and a Steve Davis bridge on my Goodtime but knew that I exhausted my tinkering over the years to get a pleasing voice. The Enoch is so much bigger in its sound and I don't mind the original bridge but would like to fool around a bit to get the rounded or darker sound of the notes of your B bridge. However I will not know until I try. Now about my ear...I cannot tell by tapping the head of the banjo if it is a G or not. On my Goodtime I had tired of loosening and tightening the tension hooks to get to a nice sound so I used a Drum Dial and found, as many others in Banjo Hangout, that a 90 setting was the best. However this does not work on my Enoch as I was at the edge of over tightening the head with the dial reading at 84. The original reading of the head was 79 on the Drum Dial. Like many others I am sure you tune by your ear but perchance do you have a Drum Dial reading of your setup? I know, I know it is a slight chance but turning those hooks is my least favorite way of tinkering. However I haven't tried Steve Davis method of setup but that's a start of tinkering. I am not a professional player and lack many, many  skills as well as perfect pitch so I look for every bit of help I can get. Out of curiosity what was your opinion of the Enoch bridge or did you have it set up with the Vermman Bridge?

Edited by - bhniko on 10/25/2015 09:41:54

jack_beuthin - Posted - 10/27/2015:  05:32:39

bhniko, if you think your Dobson is a bit too bright for you liking, a untopped or heavier bridge might help a bit.  I have swapped bridges quite a bit on my 12 inch Ome Flora, and most have made a difference.

I had Kevin put on the Veerman bridge, so I can't offer a comparison with Kevin's stock bridge.

I've never messed with drum dials and such.  All I do is press on head near the bridge to make sure it is sufficiently tight.  Even though it is arid here in Colorado, the relative humidity can go up and down quite a lot during the course of a a day and affect the head tension.  Humidity goes up during the summer monsoon here too.  My only "technique" is to check the head when the humidity is low.  If it is loose, I will incrementally tighten it using the brackets.  After that, I usually just use a blow drier to tighten the head when the humidity is up or the head seems a bit loose.  A few minutes of blowing warm air across the head pretty much does the trick. Or if it is a sunny day, just put the banjo in the sun for a bit.   I also check the bracket nuts on occasion just to make sure none have come loose (I try to keep them just a tad past finger tight).  Never have tried the Steve Davis method.  Basically, once a skin head settles in and is done with its initial stretching, it should not require that much maintenance.  However, skin heads seems to be much more individualistic than synthetic heads (part of their appeal), and some can take a while to stop stretching, or just behave badly (I've only had one like that, but once I got it on my Tradesman it finally settled down and I have not messed with it for more than a year).