Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/13/2015:  12:17:20

Popular Jewish tune with ancient Babylonian melody. 

Et Dodim

 

guitarman8491 - Posted - 08/13/2015:  16:29:22

Paul so intricate and so well played..Bravo!

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/13/2015:  17:09:16

This is similar to Arab Oud music and other music styles of the Mid East - including some Andelusian Gypsy music that is based on Arabic roots. I doubt very much that anyone has ever found any actual Babylonian music to play - and if they have any interpretation would be suspect as such things as tuning are unknown. There was writing for the Oud, and other Arab instruments going back a good long way, but some of that is questionable too. No one really knows how much of tunes in the folk tradition are anything like they were in the 12th century, let alone B.C. It is hard enough to interpret any form of early music notation.

Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/13/2015:  18:32:26

Must have been an ancient rumor. Glad it survived. 

Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/13/2015:  18:52:57

Here's the reference:

"The old wedding song "Et Dodim Kala" has lyrics from the "Song of Solomon," and the melody is said to be Babylonian in origin."

From the same article:

"Jewish folk music also typically incorporates musical ideas and styles from the countries in which Jews have lived over the centuries. The music is often passed down in the oral tradition from one generation to the next without musical notation."

Read more HERE. 

JanetB - Posted - 08/13/2015:  19:04:19

Lovely music. 

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/14/2015:  02:38:01

I'm familiar with the "ancient tunes" aspect of folk music from my study of Flamenco - where some musicologists believe that at least one Flamenco form can be traced back to India (the gypsies are most probably of Indian origin). The only problem is that they are talking about scale similarities a subject which is very contentious for several reasons. Furthermore, many of the "Ancient" Indian Raga forms were developed (along with the scale intervals used) in the 19th Century - long after the people known as Roma or Gypsy had left the Indian Sub-Continent.

I believed that particular theory for a long time too but my friend the musicologist said it does not jibe with current research in that particular field.

So who knows anything, anyhow?

Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/14/2015:  05:08:04

Good point. 

Tschaggatta - Posted - 08/14/2015:  07:12:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

 

This is similar to Arab Oud music and other music styles of the Mid East - including some Andelusian Gypsy music that is based on Arabic roots. I doubt very much that anyone has ever found any actual Babylonian music to play - and if they have any interpretation would be suspect as such things as tuning are unknown. There was writing for the Oud, and other Arab instruments going back a good long way, but some of that is questionable too. No one really knows how much of tunes in the folk tradition are anything like they were in the 12th century, let alone B.C. It is hard enough to interpret any form of early music notation.

---

I have read arguments from Arabic musicologists that there is in fact evidence that there was a substantial loss of technique from the time of the Andalusian Empire until the late 19th century. There were various musicologists and musicians in the Arab word that attempted a form of musical archeology. Among them was the Bashir family of Iraq who made substantial contributions to revitalizing the technique and enriching the tradition.

That said, it's anybody's guess how accurate their interpretations are as a reflection of what was actually done in the ancient world. Naseer Shamma, one of the reigning kings of the oud and former student of Munir Bashir has continued this effort. It seems pretty certain that some of his contributions were not practiced in the ancient world. Specifically, he developed an approach to playing the oud with one hand to benefit those who had lost an arm in war:

Tschaggatta - Posted - 08/14/2015:  07:14:07

Really love your playing!

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/16/2015:  02:16:28

Really nice!

Flamenco, much of which has strong Arabic roots, also uses a lot of legato (left hand alone) playing. Especially in the group of forms collectively known as cante flamenco - Granadinas, Malaguenas, Tarantas, etc. These are mostly forms developed in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. All seem to have their root in the older form known as Fandangos. Cante Flamenco forms tend to sound the least Arabic of flamenco forms since they are pretty modern developments.

But even the older forms - like the Cante Hondo Siguiriyas and Solea, have a lot of legato passages.

Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 08/16/2015 02:17:36

rickhayes - Posted - 08/18/2015:  11:53:09

Missed this when you first posted.  Figured I would like it.  I did.  Tony, I don't know about legato passages, but you can pass me some gelato anytime.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/19/2015:  19:50:33

Well gelato is really good fuel for legato.

brewerpaul - Posted - 08/24/2015:  17:24:20

Most excellent recording. Thanks for posting.

Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/26/2015:  13:24:02

That settles it, I'm ordering a set of strings for my oud. 

Thanks for posting this!

Best wishes,

 

Paul

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tschaggatta

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

 

This is similar to Arab Oud music and other music styles of the Mid East - including some Andelusian Gypsy music that is based on Arabic roots. I doubt very much that anyone has ever found any actual Babylonian music to play - and if they have any interpretation would be suspect as such things as tuning are unknown. There was writing for the Oud, and other Arab instruments going back a good long way, but some of that is questionable too. No one really knows how much of tunes in the folk tradition are anything like they were in the 12th century, let alone B.C. It is hard enough to interpret any form of early music notation.

---

I have read arguments from Arabic musicologists that there is in fact evidence that there was a substantial loss of technique from the time of the Andalusian Empire until the late 19th century. There were various musicologists and musicians in the Arab word that attempted a form of musical archeology. Among them was the Bashir family of Iraq who made substantial contributions to revitalizing the technique and enriching the tradition.

That said, it's anybody's guess how accurate their interpretations are as a reflection of what was actually done in the ancient world. Naseer Shamma, one of the reigning kings of the oud and former student of Munir Bashir has continued this effort. It seems pretty certain that some of his contributions were not practiced in the ancient world. Specifically, he developed an approach to playing the oud with one hand to benefit those who had lost an arm in war:

 

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Laurence Diehl - Posted - 08/27/2015:  06:21:56

I love that sound! Thanks for posting (and playing) this, Paul. Great playing too.

Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/28/2015:  19:34:10

Cheers, Laurence. I appreciate your comment. 

Thanks to everyone else who has commented. It's always nice to connect. 

Hawgfiddle65 - Posted - 09/01/2015:  03:49:31

Hi

Preserve these ancient tunes before ISIS blows them up!

Keep your tunes coming Paul, always a pleasure to hear .

Jim