greendog100 - Posted - 07/11/2015:  17:38:26

Hi Everyone,

I play a Cedar Mountain Banjo with a 12 inch pot, mostly in the clawhammer style. It has a no-knot tailpiece.  I love the 12 inch pot sound, but for years I thought it was a bit too muddy.  

I came across a video of David Holt reviewing a banjo with a 12 inch pot. youtube.com/watch?v=wMWEnEU8c4k

​He recommended dampening the strings between the tailpiece and bridge with a piece of leather to eliminate the overtones caused by those parts being longer and vibrating more than on an 11 inch pot.  

I found that the results were great.  The banjo sounds much more accurate and in tune than it did before.  The sustain doesn't change at all, and everything sounds more in tune. And it's easy to remove it if you want that more unwieldy sound.  

I was wondering if anyone else does this too?  If not, I recommend trying it. I use a piece of sheep skin, but i guess you could use anything. 

George Flink - Posted - 07/11/2015:  18:25:42

I play 6 string(Low Bass)banjo and used rubber grommets for the same reason. You often see this on mandolins as well.

Crusty - Posted - 07/11/2015:  18:40:23

Yup, it makes a noticeable tone improvement.  I use a cut rubber band woven through the strings and then tied off to complete the loop. 

If you use leather, keep it close to the tailpiece because the additional weight near the bridge will have a detrimental impact on tone.  When banjos all had no-knot type tailpieces most strings available then had chenilled ends to do the same thing.

rudy - Posted - 07/11/2015:  19:16:21

I've always used dampening there if the tailpiece is short, as is a no knot.  Other tailpieces with shorter lengths between the bridge and the tailpiece leading edge can benefit significantly, also. The longer the tailpiece the less the effect, as Kershners would demonstrate.

My rule of thumb is if you like stuffing then you'll also appreciate damping the string after length.

Edited by - rudy on 07/11/2015 19:18:40

Culloden - Posted - 07/12/2015:  08:31:41

Leather shoe lace, a pipe cleaner, or a piece of felt woven through the strings works quite well. I used a piece of felt on my RB100 which had a Waverly tailpiece. Back then I did not know that chenilled strings were created to dampen overtones on No Knot tailpieces.

There was a post recently from someone who uses velcro between the tailpiece and bridge. I have not yet had reason to try that trick but it sounds like it would work.

Dan Drabek - Posted - 07/12/2015:  09:06:12

quote:

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Originally posted by rudy

 

I've always used dampening there if the tailpiece is short, as is a no knot.  Other tailpieces with shorter lengths between the bridge and the tailpiece leading edge can benefit significantly, also. The longer the tailpiece the less the effect, as Kershners would demonstrate.

My rule of thumb is if you like stuffing then you'll also appreciate damping the string after length.

---

Now that's something I never considered before.

I've always attributed the effect of pressure tailpieces like the Kershners to be the result of downward pressure on the bridge, and increasing the break angle of the strings. But it would seem to make sense that a pressure tailpiece also dampens the after length to help focus the fundamental note by filtering out the noise. Adding rubber bands with a PT would have little effect, because the after length is already dampened.

DD

rudy - Posted - 07/12/2015:  09:36:35

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Drabek

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

 

I've always used dampening there if the tailpiece is short, as is a no knot.  Other tailpieces with shorter lengths between the bridge and the tailpiece leading edge can benefit significantly, also. The longer the tailpiece the less the effect, as Kershners would demonstrate.

My rule of thumb is if you like stuffing then you'll also appreciate damping the string after length.

---

Now that's something I never considered before.

I've always attributed the effect of pressure tailpieces like the Kershners to be the result of downward pressure on the bridge, and increasing the break angle of the strings. But it would seem to make sense that a pressure tailpiece also dampens the after length to help focus the fundamental note by filtering out the noise. Adding rubber bands with a PT would have little effect, because the after length is already dampened.

DD

---

Precisely, Dan.

From my personal observations sympathetic vibration of the string after length (as well as direct mechanical excitation from the string's physical coupling over the bridge) is more prevalent when that after length is fairly long.  I always attributed the lessening of excessive vibration of that string segment to it being much harder to excite a shorter string length.  I always think about the relative ease of getting the open strings on an instrument to vibrate sympathetically.

I do know I can definitely hear it and it is progressively more pronounced on banjos with bridges more to the head center and with short length tail pieces.

After length is a much more important consideration than what most folks give it credit for, and I believe the short length of many of the tailpieces designed specifically for "old time banjo" contribute to allowing the bridge to move freely.  It seems fairly obvious that as you move the string's anchor point closer to the bridge that it's going to influence tone substantially.  That's a whole other discussion, though.

From past discussions I know that there are some who swear that sympathetic excitement of the string sections between the nut and the tuner string posts can be heard.  My hearing isn't THAT refined, though.

Edited by - rudy on 07/12/2015 09:38:13

McUtsi - Posted - 07/19/2015:  11:44:48

I´ll second the good advice delivered ; worthy of mention,though:rudy´s last announcement

provides the cliffhanger here...IF the length o´ string ´tween the bridge & the tp is left free of

pipecleaners(or whatever),the trad,"flimsy" type of tp(Clamshell,Presto etc) will absorb more

of the str vibration and cancel out some frequenzy bands(some more than others)...this will

result in a slightly "out of phase"sound,quick(non-linear) decay which,to some,is THE trad

Gibby sound..."Gibby" is the giveaway here since,in my book,this effect is typical of Gibson

(or Gibson-type banjos) w/  full-weight tone ring...just sayin´...McUtsi

Ken LeVan - Posted - 07/20/2015:  10:00:08

You can weave wool yarn in between the strings as if they were the warp on a loom. The more back-and-forths (wefts) you do, the more it damps the overtones.

I used to do that with a clamshell tailpiece.