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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/306217
greenbrooms - Posted - 07/09/2015: 18:10:01
Here we go, my first ever Banjo Hangout Old-Time Tune of the Week! I hope I'm not judged too harshly, having to follow JanetB's Ultra-TOTW from last week
Here goes nothing:
Disclaimer - I'm posting this a few hours before Friday (9pm EST) because I realized I'll be out of the house almost all day tomorrow. I figured a little early is better than a little late!
The tune I've selected is "Elk River Blues" written by West Virginia fiddler Ernie Carpenter. It was one of the tunes that made me want to try playing clawhammer banjo in the first place, and the first I learned by ear.
The first time I heard Elk River Blues was in a promo video for Nathan Bowles' 2014 album Nansemond. His label produced a handful of live video before the release, but I must've replayed this one fifty times. Its slow, haunting, somewhat crooked melody got stuck in my head and I could not get it out. From there I started listening to Ernie Carpenter, which started me down the rabbit hole of incredible hyper-regional Appalachian fiddle/banjo music, and now here we are! Anyway, enough about me - onto the tune:
Elk River Blues is a pretty straight-forward piece once you wrap your head around the meter. It's essentially made up of four five-bar phrases in 4/4 time, but the third bar of each phrase is in 2/4. The change in meter and the odd phrase length can be a little wonky, but there's plenty of time to become more comfortable as it just repeats itself over and over with little variation!
Performers seem to repeat the AA' several times, varying it a little here and there as it goes on. It's a nice tune with a good amount of breathing room to take some liberties and noodle a little bit. It's written in standard G tuning, but I like to play it in A just because I prefer the way my banjo sounds with the capo up two frets.
I've seen some comments that Elk River Blues isn't really Old-Time, and it's more of a Country or Pop tune. Eh.. I don't really know what to say. It definitely has a more "modern" sound than the countless OT classics, but to my ears it still fits in the genre. I will say I definitely prefer the slower Bowles arrangement compared to Carpenter's faster tempo. I think it works very well as a nice lamenting ballad.. after all, it was inspired by the flooding of his boyhood home on the Elk River. From the Traditional Tune Archive:
According to the booklet accompanying Carpenter's LP, the story behind the tune is one of a difficult adjustment to a forced change in Ernie's life. He had worked most of his life for the Pittsburgh Plate Glass Company in Clarksburg, prior to retiring in 1972 to his home in Braxton County, West Virginia. He was a regular visitor during his working years to his homeplace on the Elk River, and was witness to the planning and construction of the Sutton Dam by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers on the river during the 1950's and 1960's. Unfortunately, this resulted in the flooding of his boyhood home and the surrounding area, despite the efforts of himself and neighbors to forestall the project through a lobbyist. He refused the government's initial offer for his land (they didn't offer him anything for his house), and took the case to court. He was able to gain a marked increase in the money he eventually was paid through this process, although had to pay legal fees out of his pocket. He stayed in his Elk River homestead while the dam was being constructed, even though most of his neighbors had already left. Workmen blocked the roads in and out of the area, but Carpenter found alternate routes until they too were closed off. "I was the last person out of there," he said," I went ahead then and tore the old place town and brought it up here. Part of its in this house." Of the tune, he remarked: "I was sittin' here one day, an' I had the blues. I reckon as bad as anybody could, thinkin' about my old homeplace up on the Elk River. I started sawin' on the fiddle an' that's what I came up with."
Interstingly enough, my fiancée's late grandparents settled in Sutton, WV, and I've been to the same lake and the same dam that Ernie is referring to - pretty small world! Here's an aerial view of the dam at Sutton Lake (from wvencyclopedia.org):

I've attached a basic tab of my own (please forgive the screenshot - can't quite afford the full version of Tabledit right now, so a mock-up will have to do) which is based on the Bowles version, and I've included a tab from Ken Torke over at TaterJoes.com.
There seems to be no shortage of relatively recent recordings of this tune available on YouTube, Amazon, and CDbaby, so I'll just include the two that inspired me to write this whole thing up in the first place. Along with the tab, there are recordings of Ernie, Nathan, and myself attached below. I'd love to know if anyone has recordings that have stood out to them. I haven't found a lot of "veterans" playing the tune, or at least recording it.
There is a wonderful collection of Ernie Carpenter's work available here, from WV's Augusta Heritage Center. More information on the release can be found in this Discogs entry.
And I think that just about wraps it up - I'll end with a nice quote from Mr. Carpenter, taken from the AHC website. Thanks for reading everyone!
“Music is a great gift, one of the greatest anybody can have, because it’s something nobody can take away from you. No way can they touch it. They can’t take a note away. It don’t make no difference if you’re a tramp or how low down you are, if you play music you can still keep it. That’s about the only thing left that the politicians can’t get in on! Money can’t buy it. You can’t even give it away yourself. You can learn somebody, but you can’t give it to them as a gift. It’s a very precious thing, I think, very precious.”
JanetB - Posted - 07/09/2015: 19:08:39
A+ Kevin. Beautiful, sensitive recording on your video. I'm inspired to re-record mine and slow it down, too. Thanks so much for your great presentation of this tune.
Cyndy - Posted - 07/09/2015: 19:29:13
I think you've done a FINE job here! Thanks for pulling all the information together.
This tune is very dear to me. Earlier this year, we moved from Illinois to California and I stayed behind for a few weeks, working very hard to get our house ready to sell, and then I caught the train to Los Angeles. It was me in an empty house with a sleeping bag and mat, a few changes of clothing, a banjo, a fiddle, and a lot of cleaning and painting equipment!
As you might imagine, the fiddle and banjo were good company during that time and somehow I started playing Elk River Blues on the banjo, both clawhammer and two-finger style, even though it wasn't really a tune that I'd played more than a few times before. Somehow, it just fit my mood.
Once I started playing it, it came up over and over, and I spent quite a bit of time on the train, in my roomette, leaning back in my seat, feet up, banjo in hand, working on the tune as I watched the world go by.
The thing that I love about it is the speed that Mr. Carpenter chose for the tune. To me, the melody captures loss and longing, but the tempo seems to push forward with determination.
I'm not sure I saved any of the recordings I made of me experimenting with the tune, but if I did, I'll post.
Cyndy - Posted - 07/09/2015: 20:00:47
I never finished working out a keeper version of the tune (and I actually never even went back to a source recording to see if I was on the right track) but here's a two-finger recording that I made on the Southwest Chief in March of 2015 as a way of saving both the music and the moment. ![]()
rudy - Posted - 07/10/2015: 05:19:27
Kevin, very nicely done! Your write-up is first-class.
Here's my quick version of Elk River Blues is did as a demo for my "Banjo building 101" posted in the building and repair section of BHO.
LyleK - Posted - 07/10/2015: 05:58:08
... and then Sharon Martinson of "The Littlest Birds" set lyrics to Carpenter's tune.
chip arnold - Posted - 07/10/2015: 10:23:38
I learned this one from Betty Vornbrock and it's a favorite of mine.
banjohangout.org/myhangout/med...archived=
vrteach - Posted - 07/10/2015: 10:37:06
Lovely tune. I've played along with it a number of times over the years, but I really didn't know anything about it. Great choice for TOTW.
greenbrooms - Posted - 07/10/2015: 10:45:15
Thanks for the kind words, folks! I always love hearing the arrangements people work out on here. Lyle -- totally forgot about that video that had lyrics added. I'll have to take a closer listen when I get home later.
quote:
Originally posted by Cyndy
The thing that I love about it is the speed that Mr. Carpenter chose for the tune. To me, the melody captures loss and longing, but the tempo seems to push forward with determination.
Cyndy -- loved your connection to the tune, and your comments about the tempo make complete sense. I've never thought of it that way, but it can certainly change the way I play based on whatever mood I'm in.
richmberman - Posted - 07/10/2015: 11:10:57
What a lovely tune. Nathan, your playing evokes so much feeling. Thanks Kevin, for the
write-up about Ernie Carpenter. He's an awesome fiddler.
JanetB - Posted - 07/10/2015: 11:48:42
Wonderful performances, every one of them. The sung lyrics are a bit hard for me to understand. It would be nice to see them written, too.
When I first heard this tune as played by Dwight Diller with Jimmy Tripplett, I was struck by the familiarity with a version of Bury Me Not on the Lone Prairie on Todd Phillip's "In the Pines" CD. I've sandwiched that melody with Elk River Blues here. The mood is somber, like you suggest, Kevin. I've played it faster, but this tempo feels just right.
![]() Elk River Blues |
LyleK - Posted - 07/10/2015: 12:28:34
quote:
Originally posted by JanetB
The sung lyrics are a bit hard for me to understand. It would be nice to see them written, too.
Yes, they are hard to follow.
They are listed at mandolin cafe (mandolincafe.com/forum/group.p...o=discuss) or with other song lyrics at littlestbirds.net/lyrics.html (including lyrics to Garry Harrison's "Boys, them Buzzards are Flying"????? - the multiple question marks denoting my incredulity)
I recommend the former link as it has a bunch of links to youtube videos. The octave mando version is particularly nice.
And I really like your up-tempo recording.
Edited by - LyleK on 07/10/2015 12:30:26
sugarinthegourd - Posted - 07/10/2015: 12:34:53
I transcribed the music once, including the very odd time signature -- something like one measure of 3/4 then 3 measures of 5/4. Will see if I can dig that out.
My other observation about this tune is that, being pentatonic, it sounds (or can sound) very Chinese (or Vietnamese, etc.). Sing it to your self, saying something like "boing" for each note and see if you don't agree.
John
Edited by - sugarinthegourd on 07/10/2015 12:39:57
sugarinthegourd - Posted - 07/10/2015: 12:43:26
Here's the transcription I came up with. Interested to hear what others think.
Edited by - sugarinthegourd on 07/10/2015 12:50:14
![]() Elk River Blues |
ZD - Posted - 07/10/2015: 13:07:43
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm hearing a lot of similarities between Ernie Carpenter's Elk River Blues and Ola Belle Reed's Undone in Sorrow. Thanks Kevin for the great write up.
greenbrooms - Posted - 07/10/2015: 13:48:02
Janet -- great sandwich! I forgot I made that same observation after your Lone Prairie post a few months ago. Both tunes match your style wonderfully.
John -- the 3/4 5/4 arrangement works out perfectly too! I've seen it written both ways, but just decided to throw a dart and ended up with the 4/4 2/4 version.
sugarinthegourd - Posted - 07/10/2015: 13:56:16
Kevin, right: either way you get 18 beats (weird). I think the difference is where you hear the pulse or the downbeat. Fun, I will try playing it both ways.
bhniko - Posted - 07/10/2015: 14:44:12
Wheww....sure did capture the sadness of watching your home entombed by the water.
If our drought continues we may see his home again...but that would be even a greater tragedy.
Hauntingly played by all. Thanks.
flailing - Posted - 07/10/2015: 15:31:36
flailing - Posted - 07/10/2015: 15:32:51
Very nice write-up Kevin and I enjoyed your version of this tune. Thanks for the tab.
Gord
Tamarack - Posted - 07/12/2015: 06:01:07
Very sweet and heartfelt tune and great renditions by BHO comrades.
I have always been a little frustrated with people who tell me they like old time or Irish music because "It's such happy music". True, there are many joyful reels and jigs and hornpipes, but the music came from the lives of hard-working people who knew great tragedy and sorrows. Indeed, the joyful music is sweeter because it is tempered with the sorrowful.
emmabeth - Posted - 07/12/2015: 11:52:26
I had to learn this one! Here is my take, which I based on the version on Plaidgrass' CD. This is the first tune I've figured out by ear on the banjo without having previously learned it on another instrument. Trying to make something banjo-ish while learning from fiddle and guitar was a fun challenge.
![]() VIDEO: Elk River Blues (click to view) |
Clawed - Posted - 07/13/2015: 19:51:27
Great job Kevin, I like your version and style. Definitely going to be working this one up soon. I think TOTW is my favorite part about the hangout. Everyone always does a great job and all the hard work is very much appreciated. I love hearing the stories behind the songs. And best of all it's free!
bepier - Posted - 07/14/2015: 13:54:44
Awesome write up! Loved the pseudo-OT sound (or whatever you want to call it) also!
jamesd - Posted - 07/15/2015: 08:15:22
Kevin, great choice for TOTW. Good write up and nice playing. I have really enjoyed learning this tune. I like sad. I liked listening to all the posted playing of the tune. A really nice tune.
JanetB - Posted - 07/15/2015: 09:46:05
Here are the lyrics I was searching for. Thanks for the link.
Elk River Blues
Music by Ernie Carpenter
Words by Sharon Martinson
You dam my river
You flood my farm
You dam my river
You flood my home
I've got no other place I can go to
So forever will I roam.
The water's rising
The birds are flying
They're trying to get
To higher ground
I've got no other place I can go to
So forever will I roam.
We took this land
From all its people
We took these people
From their land
They’ve got no other
Place they can go to
So forever will they roam
Zischkale - Posted - 07/19/2015: 22:26:42
Killer choice, Kevin, thanks for making me aware of the tune and of Bowles' playing. He's a real tasteful player, his variations are simple but really add to the melody, and man his slides have a clear tone. Good stuff.
The tune reminds me of one calledm"Cherokee Trail" on Bigfoot's 2012 Clifftop bootleg. Not sure if there is any connection there--I could almost see it being mislabeled.
chip arnold - Posted - 07/20/2015: 05:45:04
bepier, definitions of "old time" are many, but, for me, the fact that old time great, Ernie Carpenter made the tune, makes it old time for sure. The year not being 1927 doesn't change that :-)
It's a tune I love to play and I'm glad you like it, too.
wyomingirl - Posted - 08/12/2015: 19:06:42
Janet, thanks for finding my lyrics for Elk River Blues--I've been slammed at work and didn't catch this thread until today. I know some people get all anxious about people writing lyrics to other people's tunes, but so far, the ghost of Ernie seems to be OK with them. Those were the first lyrics I ever wrote! I think it's a great little tune (even if learned it 'crooked' and re-remembered it straighter--who knows, maybe next time I record it, I'll play it more like Ernie. or not. It's just the way do it now). Sorta like Harrison's Buzzard (those lyrics are part mine and part the friend of mine, Seth Kimmel, who taught it to me--just to keep the timing straight in our heads). Here's to the evolution of all music, through the hands of time and many people!
Stephen Rapp - Posted - 10/05/2015: 20:17:58
Just got around to learning this one. I know it's supposed to be in G, but it kind of threw me for a loop that nobody in this thread mentioned that in both Nathan and Kevin's video their banjos's are tune a full semi-tone higher. Since neither of them are singing it I can't fathom why. I was starting to wonder if my tuner was off.
Anyway, I'm really loving exploring this tune. There seems to be a bit of play with some of the chord choices. I'm not so crazy about the full on Aminor, but I do kind of like going from Eminor into D7th.
greenbrooms - Posted - 10/06/2015: 07:14:59
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen Rapp
Just got around to learning this one. I know it's supposed to be in G, but it kind of threw me for a loop that nobody in this thread mentioned that in both Nathan and Kevin's video their banjos's are tune a full semi-tone higher. Since neither of them are singing it I can't fathom why. I was starting to wonder if my tuner was off.
sorry about the confusion there, stephen.. when i wrote the tune was in G, i meant it was played in open G tuning (gDGBD). my banjo is rarely tuned to the correct pitches, so i tend to use the tunings pretty loosely without thinking.
glad you're enjoying it! definitely a fun one to work up
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