banjobrewer - Posted - 04/11/2015:  14:25:50

I thought I would share my idea about using 3/16 stainless steel cable as a flesh hoop. It not only worked well but the braid showed through the stretched skin and looked quite unique. 

My problem is that my tension hoop on an old supertone seems to bend when tightened. Leaving a gap on on side. I know it is brass but it was made for skin and it is not even to full tension yet. 

jbalch - Posted - 04/11/2015:  14:31:23

Is it bending under tension?  Or is it just out of round to begin with?

BTW - the steel cable hoop has an interesting and unique look.  Kinda cool.

kaybone - Posted - 04/11/2015:  14:35:50

Hey that's aa great idea! I have some of that laying around. Did the cable you used have the vinyl protective covering around it, and did you remove it if so?  Might have to try that on my Goodtime. THX

Edited by - kaybone on 04/11/2015 14:37:00

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/11/2015:  14:48:00

Great idea!  A boon to anyone with a slightly out-of-round shell.

banjobrewer - Posted - 04/11/2015:  14:57:36

Thanks, I think the look is very attractive. I used the uncoated cable. I think the coated would not show the texture.

John, everything seems round and looks good until I start to tighted. Then is seems that it wants to pull the flesh hoop under thetension band. I started with 1/8 cable and it happened so I went with 3/16 and same thing. Dont matter how even I tighten it just always happens on one side.

Seeders - Posted - 04/11/2015:  14:59:05

Cool idea and seems to work fairly well, interesting look for sure. Much better than a recent one I had in my shop that someone had decided to do with the low E string from an electric bass. That was quite the catastrophe. As long as the wire isn't too small and can't slip in between the rim and the hoop, like the bass string had, I could see it functioning just as well as a regular hoop

Most likely what you're seeing is, as John mentioned above, the hoop just being out of round to begin with. Not really anything to worry about as long as the cable can't slip in between the rim and the hoop as you tighten it. 

Did you connect the ends of the cable somehow or just trim it to length and trap it in the skin as you stretched?

banjobrewer - Posted - 04/11/2015:  15:12:56

I trimmed it and masking taped the ends together. The ends are on the neck end.

It seems that it is trying to slip under the tension hoop. But the cable is so big, its wider than the tension hoop on the other sides. Because of this the skin started to slip on the bad side and is about ready to come off the cable.

2 skins down, good thing I am not buying the good ones.

the reason I using skin besides the tone is that the rim is slightly smaller than 10" and a 10 inch head goes on kind of jacked up.

Thanks for the responses.

banjonz - Posted - 04/11/2015:  15:26:13

That is a really cool idea. Thanks for sharing. I have also used grey 1/8" PVC welding rod. It is very flexible and can be joined using heat (hot air gun or some form of flame) Once joined it's doesn't come apart. I have tried bending wire but joining it has always been problematic. 

Brooklynbanjoboy - Posted - 04/11/2015:  15:28:43

I found light brass tubing in a hobby store that sort of looks like the old pen refills -- comes in various diameters.  I cut about an inch and use it as a sleeve for joining the two ends of brass rods that I bend into shape to use as a flesh hoop for eccentric sized pots I'm sometimes asked to put a skin head on. 

rudy - Posted - 04/11/2015:  15:30:35

One potential problem that might occur with cable is that it can roll and twist.  That might not be what's happening in your case, but it's a thought.  A solid rolled material can't roll as a result of head tension.

Seeders - Posted - 04/11/2015:  15:31:22

What your experiencing is one of the dangers of using a round flexible flesh hoop. You just want to be really careful when tensioning it up as you can actually stretch the brass and warp the tension hoop if you're not careful. Even if it's too big to pinch in between the hoop, it will want to follow the curve of the wire instead of putting uniform pressure on it and I'm extreme cases can make the bottom of the hoop a wider diameter than the top from the stretching effect.  

If you keep having trouble give Bob Smalula a call or shoot him an email, smakula.com He has the largest synthetic head selection there is and most likely has a head that's slightly smaller than 10" that may fit a little better than the standard 10".

Good luck!

trapdoor2 - Posted - 04/11/2015:  16:17:05

I like the look of the cable a lot. Now I'm thinking about joining the ends with a cable splice (for no other reason other than it can be done). It has been a lot of years ago (I think I was 20), but I did about a half-dozen eye-splices in 1/4" 7X19 aircraft cable during the restoration of a 1930's Taylorcraft. My hands were like hamburger afterwards but the results were very cool.

Edited by - trapdoor2 on 04/11/2015 16:20:11

Ken LeVan - Posted - 04/11/2015:  17:07:22

I'm not at all surprised that the tension hoop would bend.

banjobrewer - Posted - 04/11/2015:  17:32:35

Rudy, I think you might be on to something about rolling. It seems as if it rolled itself under the tension hoop creating a wedge and bending the hoop. I dont think it would be an issue with a perfect fitting combo.

jbalch - Posted - 04/11/2015:  18:04:57

I agree with others, the cable is too flexible to work well as a flesh hoop. It is an interesting idea - but it would only work in a situation where the tension hoop is very tight to the rim (leaving no room for the cable to pull up underneath.  And in such a case as that ... a tight tension hoop causes problems of its own.

A stiff wire - that will hold shape and remain under the tension hoop is best. The inside diameter of the flesh hoop should be at least equal to the inside diameter of the tension hoop (no smaller).

Edited by - jbalch on 04/11/2015 18:11:25

banjobrewer - Posted - 04/11/2015:  18:12:19

A good thought but bad idea I guess. Thats how ya learn. Thanks

kaybone - Posted - 04/12/2015:  07:11:35

quote:

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Originally posted by banjobrewer

Thanks, I think the look is very attractive. I used the uncoated cable. I think the coated would not show the texture.



John, everything seems round and looks good until I start to tighted. Then is seems that it wants to pull the flesh hoop under thetension band. I started with 1/8 cable and it happened so I went with 3/16 and same thing. Dont matter how even I tighten it just always happens on one side.

 

---

On the Vinyl coating thing, I was thinking more about sound transfer than look. Cable I have laying around has the vinyl coating on it, and you can see the texture very nicely thru it, but I would remove the vinyl, or get some uncoated cable, because I think the vinyl coating would dampen the sound transfer to much.

But you know, there are those audiophiles out there that insist that vinyl has a warmer sound than CDs. -:)       (BTW a lot of hooey IMHO!  I NEVER want to go back to the days of pops, scratches , clicks, and stylus pickups, so I have not drunk from vinyl revival kool-aide - sorry just had to vent about that )

Edited by - kaybone on 04/12/2015 07:12:03

Crusty - Posted - 04/12/2015:  08:19:12

I imagine that if you used copper electrical cable and then filled it with solder to make it stiff it would work, but square flesh hoops in general prevent the skin from slipping better than round ones.