havingaparty - Posted - 01/22/2015:  01:47:43

I am looking to upgrade from my Goodtime since I find myself playing the banjo more and more. I have been playing for about five years and play mostly clawhammer and occasionally some fingerstyle. I live in Denmark and don't have a lot of options to try something out before buying, so I am looking to make an order. If anyone knows anything in Europe that would be great (it would save me some duties and taxes) but I would be fine with ordering from the US too.

I am looking for something simple, 12" pot, scoop, paddle-shaped headstock, no dots or inlay on the fretboard. Preferably in the 1000-1200 dollar price range. So far I have been looking at the Tradesman and the Pisgah banjos.

I like a plunky sound, not too bright. How does the different tone rings affect the sound and the volume? Dobson, rolled brass, persimmon?

What would you recommend?

Edited by - havingaparty on 01/22/2015 02:07:33

Davidprat - Posted - 01/22/2015:  03:26:39

Hi just let you know that I'm a banjo maker from Barcelona, most of my banjos are open back 12" or 11" .

Here some videos of 12" banjos

youtube.com/watch?v=tcqZzGVaLOI

youtube.com/watch?v=OfsE73STlgI

A banjo like those is around 850€.

My Web

Facebook

Edited by - Davidprat on 01/22/2015 03:38:28

jlsorbit - Posted - 01/22/2015:  05:08:56

Nice looking banjos!  Plain and simple has its merits.

mbuk06 - Posted - 01/22/2015:  05:44:08

I would second David's comment and have a look and, more importantly, a listen to some of the banjos made by English and other European luthiers as well as the US makers. One relevant factor to bear in mind in regard to budget is that purchasing closer to home can save you a considerable sum in shipping and import duty. And that money you don't have to give to the shippers and customs and excise can either go into the banjo or stay in your bank account.

But ultimately your ear and your heart should be what guide you.

RoBanJo - Posted - 01/22/2015:  06:02:06

My Ramsey Woody has a nice rich sound and is quite loud as open back. The tone ring is (as I remember) Rosewood. The sound does tend towards plunk.

BBanjers - Posted - 01/22/2015:  06:21:42

Check out ballardbanjers.com made in u.k.

Send me an email.

Oldpiper - Posted - 01/22/2015:  06:34:56

I have a 12" Pisgah with persimmon tone ring and love it. I put a John Balch goat skin head on it and sounds like what you're looking for. 

Page47 - Posted - 01/22/2015:  10:14:20

I have a Enoch Tradesman (Walnut, fretless), a Pisgah Dobson (Cherry, Short Scale) and a Pisgah Rambler (Walnut, Dobson tone ring). All three are wonderful instruments, IMHO. All 12 inch.

I've come to realize, after a ziplock bag full of bridges and several different heads, that to a certain degree, "plunk" comes from set-up and various tweaks. I can make any of these banjos "plunky" and I can make any of them disgustingly bright and "bluegrassy". They all have natural tendencies, no doubt, but set up is really where you find the tone you want (my opinion/experience, YMMV).

For a long time, I had the Tradesman set up with a Doc's Banjos custom bridge (very heavy), a medium-thickness calf skin head (from Kevin Enoch) and nylgut strings. I think I know what "plunk" means, and I'm pretty sure that was ultra-plunk! I've since moved to a Fielding bridge and tailpiece, Romero steel strings and tightened up the head. While these changes probably brighten things (maybe that means reduce plunk), I feel the banjo is much easier to play now and cuts through in a jam in a way I find much more satisfying.

The Rambler is naturally more complex sounding than the Cherry Pisgah (and the Tradesman). This is my favorite banjo to play by myself or with just a fiddler. I have it set up with a calf-skin head from Pisgah, Romero Strings, a Fielding tailpiece and again the Romero strings. The Romero string gauge set is pretty heavy, but I love the tension and thick tone. I'm using a really nice Kat Eyez spice bridge, that I've found brings the most clarity without being "bright". This banjo, as set up, is not bright and ring-y like a bluegrass, resonator banjo, but instead it is a thick, rich sound with beautiful overtones and warmth. Plunk? I'm not sure. This banjo/set-up has a lot of clarity and richness, whereas when I think of plunk I think of "thump" that is just on the good side of mud.

The Pisgah Cherry Dobson might actually be my favorite of the three (although this is kinda like asking which is your favorite of your children). The tone is far simpler than Rambler, but maybe more refined than the Tradesman. The Tradesman really likes to be set up to be as an in-your-face, aggressive canon. The Cherry Dobson is a bit sweeter and less aggressive, but not highfaluting and sophisticated like the Rambler. It is like the tradesman is a bro-dawg gym-rat fighter, the Rambler is a complicated, maybe semi-crazy, girlfriend full of passion ... and the Cherry Dobson is you best friend that you can go hang out at the pub and have beer and watch the game and generally relax with. I have this one set up with a BEAUTIFUL John Balch coffee stained goatskin head, Romero strings (again), a Kat Eyez spice bridge (this one pegged and slightly heavier wood) and a Fielding tailpiece. It is a very simple and straight forward sound, tunes come out so easily (I really love the persimmon fretboard), it feels great in my hand, it never fights me with head tension to sound good. I love this instrument. It does have a flaw. Early in the Pisgah runs, the "short scale" had only 16 frets. I didn't realize this when I ordered it from Pisgah, but there are so many times I want to resolve a phrase on that 17th fret. When I saw the most recent Short Scale Pisgahs, they now have a 17th fret. I'm so envious, I might need to buy another one one day.

All that said, I'll be building another Pisgah with Patrick and the guys in March (they have a banjo building workshop where you build your own instrument in a week with them ... look it up if you are interested). I plan on building something half-fretless (to the 5th fret, with a brass plate) and probably with the Rambler pot. I do love playing fretless, but I also love going up the neck to play a melody up an octave when a fiddler goes down an octave. I find this extremely hard to do with a fully fretless instrument. I'm hopeful I'll build something that slots nightly into the collection.

I'm on the list for a Romero, to be delivered in 4 years ... hahahaha. I have no idea what I'll even ask for from that instrument, I'm not even thinking about it much yet.

One last thing, before these three, I had a Gold Tone MM-150. I played with bridges and strings, but never made it sound like anything other than exactly the OPPOSITE of what I was looking for. I never swapped the Ren head for a real skin (that probably would have helped). This instrument was always bright and edgy and frankly just too simple. It played all the notes, but it never sounded very appealing (to my ear). I'm sure it is a fine instrument and I'm sure there are some that can make it sound good, but it wasn't for me. I do remember it fondly because it was my first and allowed me to cut my teeth, but I don't miss it. This instrument has a whyte lady tone ring, and it might just be that this tone ring doesn't allow for anything other than simple brightness. I'm not completely sure.

Hope this helps. IMHO, you can't go wrong with a Tradesman or Pisgah. You probably can't go wrong with wood or dobson tone rings (or some other tone rings). I'm sure too the builder above makes a great instrument. Prucha (in Prague) makes an interesting line of open-backs as well that I've heard good things about. No matter what you get, there are lots of ways to mold the tone the way you want.

The Old Timer - Posted - 01/22/2015:  11:33:38

I own two 12" Ramsey Chanterelles. I REALLY like 'em! You can buy these used, in your price range.

maplevega - Posted - 01/22/2015:  14:30:51

I have a 12" Rickard Cherry Dobson....have been very happy with it.

ceemonster - Posted - 01/22/2015:  14:36:16

I have a walnut 12" ramsey brass-hoop model, plus a mahogany 12" ramsey brass-hoop model, and love them. his maple versions are also great, but there is just something about the "darker" sounding neck woods that does it for me....I also have a 12" wood-rim chuck lee with a cherry neck and love that also....ren heads on all of them.

havingaparty - Posted - 01/23/2015:  15:55:10

Thank you all for the input. I know it is probably a little silly, but I would prefer the paddle-shaped headstock. When spending that kind of money I might as well get something I really like the looks of as well.

Regarding looks I also actually prefer the simpler look of fewer hooks. Like the middle one here:







Any reason for having any more than those 12 hooks? It would take a little of the weight too though probably not much. But I haven't really seen it anywhere else.

Another thing... Does it make any difference sound wise how the rim is made? Seems like some are bent into shape while others are assembled from several small pieces of wood.

Edited by - havingaparty on 01/23/2015 16:10:12

The Old Timer - Posted - 01/23/2015:  16:55:18

12 hooks is plenty to get the job done. Someone posted here once that an even lower number is perfectly adequate to hold good head tension, I remember maybe 6? I don't think there's any advantage with more than 12, other than tradition.