Pat Oloughlin - Posted - 01/19/2015:  08:43:55

I stumbled on to this banjo recently and bought it. With the help of past postings here on the Banjo Hangout Forums I've learned a lot about it. So, I'd like to say thanks to all those knowledgeable members who share their expertise. I know it's an Artist Model and I know it's made in Santa Anna CA. I also know it's got the upgraded neck inlays that would normally be found on the Concertone model. I know that some folks were trying to pull together known sales dates and serial numbers. This one is # 01123. If anyone has a guess as to the era for this banjo please let me know. All I know now is it's roughly somewhere between 1967 and 1978.

Most of the posts I've read before about these banjos were about flattop versions. What can people tell me about this archtop? I'm an old time open back kind of guy so I don't follow the archtop vs flattop discussions very closely. What I seem to read is that flattops are more popular but archtops have there fraternity. So, if anyone has an opinion as to whether an archtop is an archtop, be it Gibson, Fender or whatever please let me know.

Someday this banjo will be looking for a home, so any ideas for how to present it would be appreciated. The nut string spacing is way too narrow for me, so I'll think I'll cut a new nut. Would I be better off leaving it alone for collectors sake. I'm competent enough to change out the nut. I have changed the bridge. Otherwise it's nearly perfect in every way except for lacquer cracks on the back of the resonator.

I would enjoy some opinions and any more history anyone is willing to share.

Culloden - Posted - 01/19/2015:  11:26:55

Pat,

Congratulations on your Fender. I am not an expert on Fender banjos but I have played numerous Fenders over the years and this is the first archtop I have seen. I can't offer an opinion on the sound quality of one archtop over another but you have a rarity.

As far as the nut is concerned, if you are comfortable with making a new one then, by all means, do it. You will get a lot more satisfaction from playing with a string spacing that is more comfortable to you. But, whatever you do, keep the original nut especially if you think you may sell the banjo one day. It is kind of the same principle as keeping the original tenor neck from a prewar Gibson conversion so that it can be sold as all original.

Doconc - Posted - 01/19/2015:  12:38:46

I have fender artist archtop.  I've been told it's probably a tenor conversion.  With the concertone neck you have there, I bet yours used to a tenor too.  Bob Gaddis on the hangout here is the one who told he had never seen a 5-string artist archtop and seems to be the expert on fender artists on here.  

beegee - Posted - 01/19/2015:  12:46:05

The Artist came in tenor, plectrum and 5-string variations. I have only seen one archtop 5-string, on the internet, not in person. They are more common in tenor and plectrum. The Concert Tone necks are occasionally seen on Artist pots. The ball-top resonator screws would indicate an earlier Artist.  mine is #01617 with a bill of sale from 1970. Scott Zimmerman who was at Fender says there is no significance to the numbers. My other Artist is reportedly a 1974 #04314 with flat-top resonator screws.

Edited by - beegee on 01/19/2015 12:47:30

sonhouse - Posted - 01/19/2015:  13:45:41

Does this banjo have an arch top tone ring? It looks like it has a hoop ring. Hard to tell

Pat Oloughlin - Posted - 01/19/2015:  13:54:35

It's an archtop tone ring fro sure.

sonhouse - Posted - 01/19/2015:  15:50:40

there is no tone ring skirt as far as I can tell. If true, then it's a hoop not a tone ring

sonhouse - Posted - 01/19/2015:  16:01:04

guess my eyes are bad, can see it now.

Pat Oloughlin - Posted - 01/19/2015:  16:06:00

Tone ring skirt should be seen here.

 

mikehalloran - Posted - 01/19/2015:  16:17:42

The Fender Allegro had the tone hoop. Although I've seen these cut for flathead and archtop rings, I've never seen an Artist or Concert Tone rim built up to take a hoop like the one in my Allegro Long Neck. 

The Artist and Concert Tone had arched and flat top tone rings. 

I've never seen one that I knew to be a conversion from a tenor with a Fender neck. I have seen a few Artists with Concert Tone inlay patterns. When the date was known, these were always from the 1970s. 

As Scott has posted many times, neither the label nor the serial# can be used to date these.

The Concert Tone inlays would make this a 1970s banjo but that is speculation on my part. 

If you send me a message with your email address, I'll email you a scan of the Fender Banjo catalog from when these were made.

Edited by - mikehalloran on 01/19/2015 16:20:06

thefolkshop - Posted - 01/20/2015:  08:12:09

Love those Artists, great sound, fine necks, and high quality construction.  Here's a picture of a couple Fender Artist open-back flat heads. They are too heavy, similar to RB-180s and like the Gibson didn't go over well.  Paul

DHutchens - Posted - 01/20/2015:  15:20:02

I've known of several 5 to be exact archtop Fenders.....  They would have had to be left over rings from Salstrom....  We need a good Robbie Robinson Link to answer this kind of thing!

banjo5string - Posted - 01/20/2015:  15:36:33

I think Bill Emerson was playing a Fender Artist archtop on this concert: 

youtube.com/watch?v=VTRY3g_dnEk

Edited by - banjo5string on 01/20/2015 15:37:10

desert rose - Posted - 01/21/2015:  00:16:57

As mentioned there is no reason to think its not 100% original, I know for sure they shipped archtop 5 string Artists

Scott

sonhouse - Posted - 01/21/2015:  12:24:44

I think the fact that Bill Emerson played an Artist says a lot about how good they can sound and how well made they are. I always loved the sound of his Artist.

I also remember seeing a photo of a young Butch Robbins with an Artist and of course  the great John Hartford played a Fender Concertone which is kind of like a fancy Artist. And I know there are more who played them.

It's interesting to see what new banjos (other than Gibsons) the pro's were playing when the quality and sound of many of the new Gibsons were perceived to have gone down hill in the 70's and 80's.

There was a pristine example of an Artist in the classifieds a week or so ago that was quickly scooped up and I think the asking price was $1600.

I think that too speaks well for the Artist.

Jim Britton - Posted - 01/21/2015:  13:08:28

I sold that Fender. Upon looking around on youtube I ran across this video of "Second Generation" (Eddie Adcock - banjo) backing Mac Wiseman in a TV appearance. Eddie is playing a Fender Artist.

youtube.com/watch?v=ORhc4t3GBkc

-Jim

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Originally posted by sonhouse

I think the fact that Bill Emerson played an Artist says a lot about how good they can sound and how well made they are. I always loved the sound of his Artist.

I also remember seeing a photo of a young Butch Robbins with an Artist and of course  the great John Hartford played a Fender Concertone which is kind of like a fancy Artist. And I know there are more who played them.

It's interesting to see what new banjos (other than Gibsons) the pro's were playing when the quality and sound of many of the new Gibsons were perceived to have gone down hill in the 70's and 80's.

There was a pristine example of an Artist in the classifieds a week or so ago that was quickly scooped up and I think the asking price was $1600.

I think that too speaks well for the Artist.

 

 

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TLG - Posted - 01/21/2015:  13:57:09

In the early 70's, my band played a gig with the 2nd generation at the Memphis State campus . Eddie was playing a Fender necked banjo & I'm not sure of the pot but he had a very deep resonator.
That was a fun band I enjoyed. New Joe Clark, Heartaches sung by Jeff, Eddie took a break on Foggy Mt. Breakdown on the electric bass & at the time the "best drummer in bluegrass".

Mike mentioned he has seen an Allegros cut for a tonerings. Several years ago, I purchased an Allegro with a 20 hole flathead ring. The rim looks factory done but who knows. I don't think the ring is Fender.

Tommy

Ebanjo - Posted - 01/21/2015:  14:19:36

Danny McKnight, Bill Emerson was not playing his Fender Artist on the "Live In Japan" recording. However, he is playing it on a video from the 1971 Renfro Valley Bluegrass Festival and it is on Youtube.
Eric Ellis

southerndrifter - Posted - 01/21/2015:  18:54:58

quote:

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Originally posted by Ebanjo

Danny McKnight, Bill Emerson was not playing his Fender Artist on the "Live In Japan" recording. However, he is playing it on a video from the 1971 Renfro Valley Bluegrass Festival and it is on Youtube.

Eric Ellis

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Bill told me that during his CG years that included Jimmy Gaudreau, he played the Fender. During the Doyle Lawson years, he was playing a prewar Gibson RB-4. I would be surprised he flew the RB-4 to Japan though. He might have been playing some other banjo on that trip.......perhaps even one that he borrowed.