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badmajon - Posted - 12/27/2014: 13:12:05
I just bought a Bart Reiter buckbee. I LOVE IT, LOVE IT. It replaced my cheap fender starter Banjo I started with a year ago. Before buying a new Banjo, I attempted to upgrade my old Fender Fb55 by putting a 4 start John Balch goatskin head on it with a no-knot tailpiece. Would there be any harm to trying the JB head on my new Bart Reiter? They are both 11" pots. It's just a really nice work of art in itself, and, might sound interesting on the BR.
banjo bill-e - Posted - 12/27/2014: 13:15:25
By all means put that JB Goatskin on the Reiter! That is exactly what John would do.
PGP - Posted - 12/27/2014: 13:18:01
I have a Reiter Regent banjo with a John Balch Sterns Tannery head. It is the sweetest banjo I have ever owned and I have owned quite a few nice banjos. Make the switch and enjoy!
Peter
badmajon - Posted - 12/27/2014: 13:32:39
Nice I will do that then! Anything I should be careful not to do when installing the new head?
jbalch - Posted - 12/27/2014: 14:14:41
You should be able to swap that head - no problem - it should fit the new Reiter banjo very well. It was originally stretched on a rim that Bart supplied me. Let us know how it turns out.
Congratulations on the new banjo.
Edited by - jbalch on 12/27/2014 14:22:55
banjochuck - Posted - 12/27/2014: 14:34:07
Absolutely! Go for it! I did the same with my Reiter Buckbee, not long after getting it, and haven't looked back. It only makes a great-sounding banjo sound even better! Just follow John's detailed directions, and don't forget to install the brass tone ring under the skin head, as I did my first time out.
Congrats on your new banjer, fellow Buckbee-er!
Dale Morris - Posted - 12/27/2014: 14:34:19
Concerning replacing the head on the banjo..you want to go around and around and gradually tighten the head down. That way it will be evenly positioned on the banjo.
pastorharry - Posted - 12/27/2014: 15:14:42
Something I do when installing a new head is
1. finger tighten the j hooks, starting with 1 o'clock then 3,5,7,9,11 to balance the tension ring evenly, then add the other hooks and finger tighten.
2. I flip the banjo over and press down on a flat surface like a table and tighten the hooks again from the bottom by feel, trying to get all the same tightness. The table helps to keep the tension hoop at the same level all around.
3. I flip the banjo back over and go around again giving about a quarter turn each pass, eyeballing the tension hoop occasionally.
4. When the head is snug I tune up and play and go around again and tighten till I get the desired tone,(I prefer really tight), you may like it somewhere's else, but I find the tighter the head the less echo and sustain. Take her slow, but take her!!
badmajon - Posted - 12/29/2014: 05:50:42
This sucks. I took the head off the reiter only to learn that the jdbalch head won't fit due to the tone ring. The retaining hoop sits up too high now because of the tone ring. I take it this head will not work or is there something I am not understanding here?
badmajon - Posted - 12/29/2014: 05:52:30
jbalch - Posted - 12/29/2014: 08:26:25
Do you have the instructions that I send with my hide heads? If not see here: hangoutstorage.com/banjohangou...62012.jpg
The instructions explain how to stretch the hide head if necessary.
But looking at the photo - you will not want to stretch the crown as tall as the original. Once you align the tension hoop properly ( so he the neck notch is at the end of the fingerboard), You will only want to pull it down far enough so that the tension hoop does not interfere with the strings).
Hide heads continue stretch over time. It is best to start out with a crown that is not too tall...that gives room for the head to stretch and remain useable. If you start out with a tall crown - the hide will likely stretch and bottom out so that it can no longer be tightened.
Let me know what other questions you have.
Edited by - jbalch on 12/29/2014 08:36:49
jbalch - Posted - 12/29/2014: 09:22:31
Here is a photo of how the tension hoop might sit after initial mounting. The hoop is well above the head - even above the scooped out end of the fingerboard - but it does not interfere with the strings at the neck notch.
An initial set-up like this is good - it will likely stretch and pull down further over time.
badmajon - Posted - 12/29/2014: 09:41:54
Hi John thank you for your reply. I figured out that there is a notch where it meets the neck. So, I made it work by rotating the tension hoop so the notch was lined up.
However, since installing the new head, the sound hasn't changed for the better. In fact, the banjoey sound, the plunkey-pop that I had with the old head, is gone now. It now sounds more guitar like. Is this simply a case of the head not being tight enough or does the skin head just give a different sound vs. the elite head that was previously installed? I can't see a noticable dip in the skin where the bridge is attached though, it seems pretty tight.
jbalch - Posted - 12/29/2014: 09:59:59
It is very hard to respond to your question about the sound ...without hearing it in person. But in general - if the tension is similar - a hide head should not be brighter or have more sustain than a plastic.
It could be that your taller-crown reniassance head was was actually looser. You might reducing the tension a little bit.
Also, I recommend giving it a while for the head to settle - it is sometimes hard to evaluate until the head has been on the banjo at least a day or so.
JB
badmajon - Posted - 12/29/2014: 11:56:14
Does anyone else have experience with switching to hide and the sound difference?
oldtimefolkie - Posted - 12/29/2014: 12:32:10
Personally, I love the sound of hide heads over plastic ones. Does having the tension hoop higher now interfere with the tailpiece at all? Maybe some sound change could be attributed to the tailpiece being pushed up or resting on the hoop at an angle now? Just a thought.
oldtimefolkie - Posted - 12/29/2014: 13:03:54
Guess it could be creating less down pressure on your bridge with a higher tailpiece. That would affect the tone separately from the head swap IMHO.
superdave - Posted - 12/29/2014: 14:41:26
I have one of Johns coffee stained Goat skin heads on my Reiter Tubaphone and would never go back to plastic. To me it now has a more earthy sound compared to when it was sporting a Ren head. I also have a skin head on my Ramsey Custom Fairbanks Electric. Not sure what type of animal ? Mike stretched and mounted it before delivering my banjo. I live in Mich. Where temps and humidity swing with the seasons and have had zero issues with mine. I have to make very minor adjustments now that they have settled in as John mentioned.
Dave
Edited by - superdave on 12/29/2014 14:42:32
badmajon - Posted - 12/30/2014: 16:40:09
I'm not sure what really went wrong with the head swap. It's possible that it had to do something with the tailpiece and of the head just not being tight enough. I will definatly hang on to the nice head that John made for me and I will take it to a luthier when I have the chance. I'm hoping I can find one in London. If so many people prefer the hide head I must have done something wrong.
jbalch - Posted - 12/30/2014: 18:05:28
My guess is that it has to do with head tension. From the way you describe your original sound, I think maybe the renaissance head was stretched and loose.
The lower crown on my hide head probably caused you to install with it higher tension than before. Higher tension could account for the difference in sound.
Here is the thing about banjos and set-up. If you prefer the sound of your original plastic head - by all means use it. All that matters is what works for you. Don't worry about what others say here on the BHO.
My banjos are set up for me. After more than forty years of playing, I have developed my own sound and preferences. But if you picked up my banjo it might not please you at all - and there is nothing wrong with that.
I hope you find the sound you love and are seeking! best wishes! Happy new Year!
JimInAlabama - Posted - 12/30/2014: 22:33:04
quote:
Originally posted by badmajon
Does anyone else have experience with switching to hide and the sound difference?
I'm late to the party and you've gotten good advice but I thought I'd relate my experience......... Earlier this year I replaced my starter with a nice Chuck Lee 12" wood rim. I tried both the Renaissance and Fiberskyn and couldn't get the sound I wanted. The Fiberskyn didn't do it for me at all. With the Ren I was able to get a "good" sound but not the sound I wanted, it would go from too bright to too tubby. (Tone is hard to describe and very subjective but I wanted ..... warm but still lively, a little, but not too much, sustain, no tubbiness, and I would be ok sacrificing "some" volume for tone) I got a stained goatskin head from John and when I first put it on I was underwhelmed. It didn't have much volume or life .... but I knew it was supposed to get better after it settled in and it did get better, WAY better, after a week or too and I like it a lot now. Everybody has different taste but I can't imagine anyone looking for a plunky old time sound NOT preferring the goatskin over plastic. That being said, there are people who do prefer the sound of plastic heads!
When I installed mine I pretty much followed John's instructions, got it level, brought it up to a fairly loose tension, then went around tapping and adjusting at each bracket til I got the same tap tone at each bracket. Then I tightened it evenly and slowly until I found the first decent sounding tension, did the tap thing again, then used a straight edge and coins to gauge the tension and give me a reference point. After that I just played the dickens out of it for a few days, tightening it a little daily to keep it at my reference tension. After it stopped stretching I tightened it up more and found the sweet spot and used the stick and coins to get the reference point. I keep the tailpiece just tight enough to barely rest on top of the hoop. I got a really nice warm plunky sound without being tubby but still wasn't quite where I wanted it. I switched from steel strings to Aquila Reds and experimented with bridges and have settled on a few bridges that work better. I have a love/hate relationship with the Reds, they sound great but have been a pain in the butt to deal with.
Hmmm, I really didn't intend to write a book. Good luck with it!
