chas5strings - Posted - 12/17/2014:  12:37:37

What do we think? Is this worth a 5 hour drive and 1500$?

jims38134 - Posted - 12/17/2014:  13:39:20

In US at auction for someone wanting that model it would be worth $1500 but market has been depressed here for awhile.

Over there in France?  You would know market better than I would. And i would want detailed pics before driving 5 hours. Is that US$ or Euro? Jim

chas5strings - Posted - 12/17/2014:  13:46:14

That's the dollar price. Are there any particular pics I would need and what problems am I likely to meet with B&Ds.
I should perhaps add I have a Paramount B and Vega professional, both of which I am very happy with. Do I really need a bacon?

rudykizuty - Posted - 12/17/2014:  14:06:23

I've owned all three brands and still have a Paramount C among my collection. The B&D Silver Bells are the cream of the crop. Would I drive that far for one at that price? Yes, been there, done that.

Edited by - rudykizuty on 12/17/2014 14:06:58

chas5strings - Posted - 12/17/2014:  14:11:30

What about all that sparkly stuff? I prefer the look of the plain wood ones. Is the Smeck any better or more collectible?

rudykizuty - Posted - 12/17/2014:  15:42:10

I wouldn't say it's any better than other Silver Bells. But it is a rarer model. I've seen my share of Silver Bells over the last 35+ years and personally have never seen one of these in in person, only in photos. Based on that, I don't find it a particularly handsome look either. If you don't find it appealing, then I'd pass. $1500 is no small amount of money and it would probably be better invested in a banjo that you're sure you'd really like.

chas5strings - Posted - 12/17/2014:  23:13:05

OK, thanks for your opinions.
How about a SB Serenader with mute 4 hours away at 2,200$ perhaps?

rudykizuty - Posted - 12/18/2014:  02:54:00

I own a couple of Groton made Serenaders and love them. However, the Serenader is a model that was continued in production by Gretsch long after the original Bacon Banjo Co. in Groton closed shop. In general, Gretsch quality doesn't match up to the original Bacon models. I've seen and heard a few nice Gretsch made banjos here and there, but they've been the exception, not the rule. Without more photos and details available, I would say that a Groton Serenader may be worth the effort, but a Gretsch model would not.

chas5strings - Posted - 12/18/2014:  03:00:49

Yeah, I think I knew that. This serenade is purported to be 1934 and I have no reason to disbelieve that as the serial no. 34xxx appears in Polle's database.
Is the srenader a "higher" model than the Smeck do you know?

rudykizuty - Posted - 12/18/2014:  03:08:22

No. In fact, at the time the Serenader was released around 1931, Bacon had streamlined their product line and did away with the 1-9 numbering system. In general, the stock Serenader would be equivalent to a number 1.

chas5strings - Posted - 12/18/2014:  04:39:57

Ah so we are back to the Smeck and at a lower price. That's good because the serenader price is approaching that of some modern Luthier prices.
Is there a 'professional' model B & D which is not 'fancy' but made in sufficient numbers that they can be found easily?
My interest in bacons is because I have a SB neck married to a peerless body which does the biz admirably and I wondered what the real McKay would be like.

rudykizuty - Posted - 12/18/2014:  05:53:28

A standard #1 Silver Bell.

chas5strings - Posted - 12/18/2014:  06:59:24

thanks. I'll look into that.

rudykizuty - Posted - 12/18/2014:  07:10:05

You're welcome. Good luck with your search!

jims38134 - Posted - 12/18/2014:  08:32:53

I like to see pics of peg head both front and back, heel, inside with all markings, and down and side views of neck. As already discussed, all of the Groton made Silver Bells are fine, professional models. Jim 

dutchtenor - Posted - 12/18/2014:  11:54:48

I own a Roy Smeck Stage Model no 4, which does look very nice, but different than the 'standard' Roy Smeck looks. The one on your picture has the glittery looks. Besides that, the sound of all B&d' s is excellent and price is more dependant on the rarity (higher models, higher prices). Although it is very rough, a guideline could be #1 $1000,- #2 $2000,- etc.

In my banjolife so far (almost 40 years), I found only one banjo sounding as good as (but different) a B&d, and that is a Trujo. They are a rare find but not really expensive.

Good hunting!

Edited by - dutchtenor on 12/18/2014 11:56:17

chas5strings - Posted - 12/18/2014:  13:53:55

Never heard of a trujo but rest assured I shall look it up.
Bernunzio (or whatever his name is) in NY has a great advert for a B&D on youtube. Some youth playing a very out of tune plectrum. If i didn't know any better, that would surely put me off banjos forever.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 12/19/2014:  05:18:29

Charles,

The Roy Smeck SB seems somewhat odd - the rim has inlaid "snow flakes" á la a Ne Plus Ultra - the material used for the resonator back cover looks indeed very odd - and the resonator flange does for sure not come from the Bacon factory - it´s home made.

Polle

chas5strings - Posted - 12/19/2014:  05:34:56

Well Polle I'll say this.........you certainly have an eye for detail.

I presume by "home made" you mean put together from various parts. Many thanks for the info.



A pity I can't post the photos of the serenader but at 1800€ I think it is a tad on the expensive side.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 12/19/2014:  06:26:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by chas5strings

Well Polle I'll say this.........you certainly have an eye for detail.

I presume by "home made" you mean put together from various parts. Many thanks for the info.



A pity I can't post the photos of the serenader but at 1800€ I think it is a tad on the expensive side.

---

Charles - by a "home made" flange I mean, that someone has manufactured (spun) the brass flange himself - and btw. punched F-holes of a wrong shape/size and not equally spread around the circumference.

As for the resonator back - the engraving/painting is professionally done - only the material looks somewhat odd to me - I´ve never seen something like this.

As for the "snow flake" or flower rim inlays - these were only used on NPU´s - like these two of mine:

Polle

chas5strings - Posted - 12/19/2014:  06:40:53

So here we get into the realms of...is the quality of sound in the pot or the neck. If we have a NPU pot, could it not sound superb. Is the neck only there to lengthen or shorten the stop (string length/pitch). Are the two inter-dependant?

The reso, yes I wondered whether it was inlaid, painted or transferred. A simple email should ascertain that.

Polle........you say you have never seen one like this. Could that mean we have uncovered a genuine 'unknown' article?

I looked at the f holes. Could camera angle explain anything?