banjered - Posted - 08/06/2014:  14:12:59

For months I've been annoyed at a too-sharp-a-nylgut-first-string-as-you-fret-up-the-neck. By the 8th fret it was at least a 1/2 to 3/4 step too sharp. I thought it had something to do with it being a too sloppy-put-together 1890 Stewart banjo. But thinking (more) about it today, noting that the other strings did not go sharp upon fretting, and not being able to  detect any twisting or distortion in the neck or neck/pot relationship, I thought I would replace the first string. BINGO! Perhaps I over-stretched it prior to putting it on, or maybe it was defective to begin with. I assume that the string had fat and thin areas causing the problem, not sure why that would cause a sharpening of pitch upon fretting the string (anybody know)?  So nylgut lovers everywhere - beware of overstretching! Ha! Banjered

rudy - Posted - 08/06/2014:  17:46:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjered

For months I've been annoyed at a too-sharp-a-nylgut-first-string-as-you-fret-up-the-neck. By the 8th fret it was at least a 1/2 to 3/4 step too sharp. I thought it had something to do with it being a too sloppy-put-together 1890 Stewart banjo. But thinking (more) about it today, noting that the other strings did not go sharp upon fretting, and not being able to  detect any twisting or distortion in the neck or neck/pot relationship, I thought I would replace the first string. BINGO! Perhaps I over-stretched it prior to putting it on, or maybe it was defective to begin with. I assume that the string had fat and thin areas causing the problem, not sure why that would cause a sharpening of pitch upon fretting the string (anybody know)?  So nylgut lovers everywhere - beware of overstretching! Ha! Banjered

---

It's fairly common with synthetics.  I always advise folks to gradually increase string tension, but a lot of folks just crank them up.  You had a string that had a weaker area obviously.  The diameter of Nylguts can be a bit inconsistant, take a look at Elderly's (best guess) list of string diameters for Nylguts.

davidppp - Posted - 08/06/2014:  18:02:20

I think that your guess/observation is exactly right: fatter and thinner areas along the string.



For example, if the string is uniform, the 12th fret gives an octave of the open string. On the other hand, if the half of the string near the nut is thicker than the half near the bridge, you can still tune the string by adjusting the tension to get the same open pitch as you had with the uniform string. Now, fretting at the 12th will be sharper than an octave because the mass of the vibrating section is less than half of the total. For a uniform segment of string, the square of the frequency is proportional to the ratio of the tension to the density. For the thick&thin string, you'd use the average density.



Some people have good enough ears to hear non-uniformities even in new steel strings. I find that my own mediocre pitch discrimination is a blessing.

 

banjobart - Posted - 08/06/2014:  18:15:45

Nylgut first strings are junk, use good classic guitar first strings. Heck, use classic guitar strings for all five.

banjobart - Posted - 08/06/2014:  18:16:19

Nylgut first strings are junk, use good classic guitar first strings. Heck, use classic guitar strings for all five.

banjered - Posted - 08/06/2014:  20:27:54

I do think there are some quality control issues with nylguts but I like the sound of them. I think the softness of the strings helps the sound but perhaps contributes to their sometimes unreliableness. I recall when Saverez yellow card was all the rage for synthetic banjo strings, haven't read about them in a while. I wonder how the Sands strings compare to the Savarez. I had Savarez on a banjo that was still going strong after two years. Banjered

Tom Berghan - Posted - 08/07/2014:  08:06:44

Oh c'mon - Nylgut is not jjunk. That is a bit drastic. 

The world market has judged them to be in the top three synthetic strings ever produced. Those sales cannot be simply dismissed as "People are stupid."  Thousands of musicians love them. But you do not and that is why I like free markets and competition - you are free to buy what you prefer. 

Maybe one person likes Chevrolet and another likes Ford. But they both make a pretty good product. Nylgut is not junk. Meanwhile, I'm sticking with real gut - made by Aquila. 

banjobart - Posted - 08/07/2014:  17:42:20

Nylgut FIRST strings are in fact junk. They never stop stretching. The only time they stop stretching is when they break prematurely.