whytelaydie7 - Posted - 07/25/2014:  03:30:14

Heres one of my favorite tunes.  It's been done by a lot of people.  A brief history of the tune follows below, copied from mattesonart.com

Train on the Island



Train on the Island is an old-time/bluegrass banjo and fiddle tune originally found in North Carolina, Virginia and Tenessee. The first recording was a field recording made in a make-shift studio in Bristol, Tenessee by Ralph Peer for Victor records during the famous 1927 Bristol Sessions (Victor 21070) on August 1, 1927 of J.P. Nestor (J. Preston Nestor, banjo) and Norman Edmonds, fiddle. 



Nester and Edmonds:

John Preston Nester (J.P. Nestor) was born Nov. 26 1876 Hillsville in Carroll County Virginia (died in 1967). Norman Edmonds was born Feb. 9, 1899 in Wythe County, Virginia (died in 1976). Both men played together many year before the recording session. 



With the release of the now famed Folkways Anthology of American Folk Music featuring "Train on the Island" many scholars and collectors became aware of a valuable cross-section of great folkmusic masterpieces recorded during the 1920s and 1930s by commercial record companies. However, as happens with any art form, some pieces among this collection (six LPs’ worth) of great pieces stood out above others. Among these standouts was a tune played and sung with fiddle and banjo. This tune, “Train On The Island,” has been considered a classic in every sense of the word by collectors. The singer played great mountain-style banjo and sang with much fervour. His name was J.P. Nestor, and this is the only name to be found on the original 78, and consequently, on the LP reissue. Little has been learned about him other than that he died a few years ago, and his middle name was Preston. He apparently went by the nickname of “Pres.” After recording four numbers on August 1, 1927, in Bristol, Tennessee, for the Victor company, Nestor and the accompanying fiddle-player were offered paid transportation to New York City to make more records [another account says they were offered a chance to record again when Peer came back to Bristol]. Unfortunately, Nestor flatly refused to leave the Blue Ridge Mountains of the Hillsville, Virginia, area, and was never recorded again, Thankfully, two of the songs recorded at the 1927 session were released. These were “Train On The Island” and “Black Eyed Susie,” released on Victor 21070. There has been some speculation that the remaining two songs recored at this session, “Georgia” and “John, My Lover,” were damaged – the masters – in shipment from Bristol to Camden, New Jersey.

The tune has a great drive, and has been played by many notable musicians.  I discovered it in a performance by Richie Stearns and Rosie Newton, which seems to add a more plaintive note to the original, which I really enjoyed, and have adapted that to my own version of the song, which I hope to post later today.

The Recording by JP Nestor follows:

youtube.com/watch?v=s3rII2gxz6E

This can be contrasted with the Richie & Rosie Version:

youtube.com/watch?v=YhHryl_5h98

Enjoy!

Davidprat - Posted - 07/25/2014:  04:12:24

This is my favourite version with Greg Hooven

youtube.com/watch?v=vnMmj8tkEE0

Jimmy Sutton - Posted - 07/25/2014:  06:18:01

By co-incidence I have just found a version of this tune on You Tube played on fiddle by the grandson of Norman Edmonds, Jimmy Edmonds. Jimmy has been playing since he was four years old and used to play with Uncle Wade Ward at about age seven. Jimmy who is also a luthier and appeared briefly in London about two weeks back with three other luthiers from south west Virginia performing as a group. You might find this of interest. The other performers are Wayne Henderson guitar, Spencer Strickland mandolin and Gerald Anderson Vocal and bass.



youtube.com/watch?v=h57M4Mg6y0g

Edited by - Bill Rogers on 07/26/2014 16:09:09

Jimmy Sutton - Posted - 07/25/2014:  06:31:06

Further to my post above, there are also a couple of clips of Jimmy in an informal London pub session on that same you tube channel. If you click on the channel name Backup6box you will find more sessions featuring old time fiddlers and banjo pickers British and American.

Brooklynbanjoboy - Posted - 07/25/2014:  08:25:57

JanetB - Posted - 07/25/2014:  10:03:55

On this link you can follow along with lyrics as J.P. Nester sings:  songlyrics.com/j-p-nester/trai...d-lyrics/

I look forward to your recording today, Alan, and am grateful you've presented a song from the Folkways Anthology of American Music.

etparadox - Posted - 07/25/2014:  11:44:34

One of my favorite oldtime songs! My favorite version is probably Bruce Molsky's 

Another great one comes from a group Brendan Taafe put together, with Adam Hurt on banjo.

Adam Kiesling - Posted - 07/25/2014:  13:45:28

I've been a fan of the old time found on the Anthology for a while. Uncle Bunt Stephens' Sail Away Lady and Andrew and Jim Baxter's Georgia Stomp are a couple of my favorites.

Here's some more info about Messrs. Edmonds and Nestor: theanthologyofamericanfolkmusi...stor.html

Edited by - Adam Kiesling on 07/25/2014 13:47:54

whytelaydie7 - Posted - 07/25/2014:  18:29:21

That piece with Adam Hurt is fantastic!  I wonder what instrument that backing is?

Any way as promised here's my version, rough as it is.

VIDEO: train on the island: BHO TOTW 7-25-14 (click to view)

JanetB - Posted - 07/26/2014:  13:41:03

This song lends itself to a wide variety of interpretations and style, with many favorites being shared here.  Your version is a lively but plaintive one with its minor chord sound.  What lyrics are you singing?  I often need to read lyrics and then I can hear the singer better.  I listened to Bruce Molsky and kind of "play the words" in this softer version on a minstrel banjo.

I have two questions:  What island might this train be on?  What wheel gets held on a train?

VIDEO: Train on the Island (click to view)

UncleClawhammer - Posted - 07/26/2014:  13:58:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by JanetB

What wheel gets held on a train?

---

the steering wheel, hopefully.

RG - Posted - 07/26/2014:  14:32:34

Other notable versions of this great tune include Abe Horton & Harold Hausenfluck's version of this tune from the "Cornbread, Molassas and Sassafrass Tea" album, the Ballards Branch Bogtrotters version with Wade Ward 3 finger picking the tune, Frank George and David O'Dell's version on the "Reflections of the Past" LP and of course Tommy Jarrell's version...

Bill Rogers - Posted - 07/26/2014:  17:17:09

I've also heard it set to the "June Apple" melody.  This was the only one I found among many versions on YouTube:

youtube.com/watch?v=nV7iZPJO5Vo

UncleClawhammer - Posted - 07/26/2014:  20:54:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

I've also heard it set to the "June Apple" melody.  This was the only one I found among many versions on YouTube:

youtube.com/watch?v=nV7iZPJO5Vo

---

Pretty sure that's the way the New Lost City Ramblers did it.

davido - Posted - 07/26/2014:  22:07:32

I am a lurker on Banjo Hangout and just uploaded my version of Train On The Island. It is my first post ever to the site. First of all, I would like to thank everybody who puts together the TOTW. It is inspiring to find out more about common tunes and to be introduced to ones that I am not familiar with—like “Train on the Island.” Here's my version:

banjohangout.org/myhangout/mus...?id=69552

I’ve been trying to learn by ear and that’s what I did here. It’s based on the Canote brothers:

stringband.mossyroof.com/Train...sland.mp3

and lots of versions on Spotify. I particularly liked the slower Bruce Molsky treatment although one link to various versions called it ‘dreadfully slow':

sites.google.com/site/oldtimef...he-island

The name of the tune, Train on the Island, and the lyric “I can’t hold the wheel” were perplexing to me: train on an island doesn’t make much sense and what is the wheel? I have a theory (with the caveat that the song could just be one with movable lyrics from lots of other songs and no deeper meaning. And it has a movable tune as well, some versions use June Apple.)

In a technical article on railroad switches an engineer referred to a ‘train on the island’ that sounded like a place off the main track where a train waits to be dispatched, i.e. isolated* but ready to go. “I can’t hold the wheel” could refer to the train brakes on each car. The refrain makes it clear that there is nothing to be done to stop the train from leaving. If so, the song may belong with songs of longing and separation. 

(*mid 18th century: from French isolé, from Italian isolato, from late Latin insulatus ‘made into an island,’ from Latin insula ‘island.)

I had a lot of fun with the song and I’ve asked my neighbor, a kalimba player, to learn the Brendan Taaffe/Adam Hurt version.

Jim Yates - Posted - 07/26/2014:  23:48:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by UncleClawhammer

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

I've also heard it set to the "June Apple" melody.  This was the only one I found among many versions on YouTube:

youtube.com/watch?v=nV7iZPJO5Vo

---

Pretty sure that's the way the New Lost City Ramblers did it.

---

Cathy Fink & Duck Donald did it to the tune of June Apple on their Kissing Is A Crime album.

whytelaydie7 - Posted - 07/27/2014:  05:36:28

Janet, my lyrics are partially my own, written to enhance the theme of loss.

Train on The Island


Train on the island, comin' up around the bend
Go and tell my true love, I hope we never end (x2)

Train on the island, hear that whistle blow
Go and tell my true love, I'm sick and I can't go (x2)

Train on the island bringin' her back to me
Go and tell my true love, it's gettin' dark and I can't see (x2)


Train on the island let that old bell ring
Go and tell my true love I want to hear her sing (x2)

Train on the island, hear them drivers squeal
Go and tell my true love I can't hold the wheel (x2)

Train on the island hear them steel rails moan
Carry me to lay me down in my final home (x2)

Jim Yates - Posted - 07/27/2014:  07:45:53

Train on the island, hear them drivers squeal

Go and tell my true love I can't hold the wheel (x2)

 

I may use some of your lyrics if you don't mind Whytelaydie7.  What wheel did you mean in this verse?

JanetB - Posted - 07/27/2014:  08:54:58

Kudos to davido for solving three mysteries and posting for the first time.  The wheel is a brakewheel.  The island is a waiting area for engines.  The instrument in Brendan Taafe's version is a kalimba.  And David's playing is fantastic, plus I'm looking forward to his recording with a kalimba, too.

I like Brendan's verse:  Goin' round the mountain to hear that banjo ring, going' round the other side to hear my darlin' sing.

whytelaydie7 - Posted - 07/27/2014:  09:11:13

Jim, feel free to use whatever you like. The conclusion that has been drawn is the that the wheel is a brake wheel. (pre air brakes)

that leads me to another thought behind the song, from the perspective of a brakeman trying to stop a runaway train, or perhaps a cut of cars on a hill, where if you cant "hold the  wheel" youre likely to die.

from my understanding being a brakeman was the most dangerous job on a train, especially in the days of pin couplings and manual brakes.

Mtngoat - Posted - 07/27/2014:  09:23:05

There’s a good version by Gellert and Goehring on the Starch and Iron CD.

Edited by - Mtngoat on 07/27/2014 09:32:24

Jim Yates - Posted - 07/27/2014:  10:36:42

A friend just stayed at our house while he was playing a gig in Peterborough.  As I saw him off at the train station about an hour and a half ago, we watched a freight go by and were talking about a Fred Eaglesmith song called I Like Trains.  It contains the line,"I missed the train but I was satisfied with a glimpse of the caboose."  I really miss cabooses.  They gave a sense of closure that you don't get with a "flashing rear end device".  I wonder if Fred Eaglesmith realises that the acronym used for these devices by RR workers is "FRED".

Zischkale - Posted - 07/27/2014:  21:41:35

Great choice, Alan! One of my favorite tunes from the Anthology! Nestor's version has such powerful drive, and fast! You really have to listen for the banjo but that 5th string is popping in time and really firing the tune forward.

Good to hear these slower versions of the tune, it's got a lot to it. Lots of great melodic variations in the vocals folks choose--the song is sadder than I figured! Comes out in your version too, Alan--that minor chord bit really fits. And I'm getting a better appreciation for the lyrics--never really listened to what he can't do. Thought it was another clickety-clack train song but it's really got more to it.

Loving that Adam Hurt version--wasn't so into the marimbas at first but overall am liking it. Listen to that part at 1:55, where he snakes this micro-slide in that's just beautiful!

Thanks for sharing, Alan!

[EDIT] Lurk no more, davido, that's some sweet playing, dude. Also the best answer to what a train on an island is I've heard so far.

Edited by - Zischkale on 07/27/2014 21:49:14

RG - Posted - 07/28/2014:  00:33:53

"from my understanding being a brakeman was the most dangerous job on a train, especially in the days of pin couplings and manual brakes." - originally posted by whytelaydie7

Very true, in the old days brakemen would walk the tops of the cars setting the individual boxcar brakes from locomotive to caboose, a very dangerous job indeed...in addition to setting pin couplings in the yard...dangerous as attested by my grandfather getting his leg crushed between couples and cut off below the knee at the age of 19 while setting pins for the Frisco in 1918...times sure have changed...

Pose - Posted - 07/28/2014:  10:43:00

I've got an old LP of Joe Hickerson and friends singing Train on the Island with someone playing a clawhammer banjo in the background. It's a choral rendition with lots of beautiful lyrics set to June Apple. I really love it and enjoy playing June Apple along with it. The LP is a a Folk Legacy album. They sure put out some nice work. I own several of their records including ones by Hobart Smith, Michael Cooney, The Golden Ring, and Ed Trickett, all filled with great banjo tunes.

mrbuster - Posted - 07/28/2014:  16:19:58

Here's my favorite version.

VIDEO: Old Crow Medicine Show - Train on the Island (click to view)

banjo bill-e - Posted - 07/28/2014:  17:18:02

Well that was fun! Good to see OCMS get back to their roots.

UncleClawhammer - Posted - 07/29/2014:  12:17:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by mrbuster

Here's my favorite version.

---

My favorite as well. OCMS has never really gotten away from their roots; in concert 50 percent or more of the material is traditional old-time folk songs. I was disappointed by the new album when it had no traditional songs on it. They come up with some pretty obscure stuff... I thought they'd written "Poor Man" until I discovered it on a Frank Proffitt record.

davido - Posted - 07/29/2014:  21:07:03

UPDATE re definition of "Train on the Island"

Seeing as how the Internet is forever I want to be certain that my speculation does not become fact for others looking for an explanation.

I wrote the railroad engineer and asked him to define what he meant by ‘train on the island’ and this is what he said:

“The island that I am writing about on my website is the short portion of track overlaps with the road at a railroad crossing, plus some margin of track on each side for a 100-foot minimum overall length.  It is important in a discussion about crossing control circuits because the circuits are usually designed to keep the signals activated when the train is on or occupies the island regardless of speed or direction or even if the train has stopped.  This terminology is well established.  However, it's not clear to me that this is the same island that is being discussed in the song you refer to.”

This is less than definitive, to say the least, for my original explanation. If I find anything else out I will share it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by davido

I am a lurker on Banjo Hangout and just uploaded my version of Train On The Island. It is my first post ever to the site. First of all, I would like to thank everybody who puts together the TOTW. It is inspiring to find out more about common tunes and to be introduced to ones that I am not familiar with—like “Train on the Island.” Here's my version:

banjohangout.org/myhangout/mus...?id=69552

I’ve been trying to learn by ear and that’s what I did here. It’s based on the Canote brothers:

stringband.mossyroof.com/Train...sland.mp3

and lots of versions on Spotify. I particularly liked the slower Bruce Molsky treatment although one link to various versions called it ‘dreadfully slow':

sites.google.com/site/oldtimef...he-island

The name of the tune, Train on the Island, and the lyric “I can’t hold the wheel” were perplexing to me: train on an island doesn’t make much sense and what is the wheel? I have a theory (with the caveat that the song could just be one with movable lyrics from lots of other songs and no deeper meaning. And it has a movable tune as well, some versions use June Apple.)

In a technical article on railroad switches an engineer referred to a ‘train on the island’ that sounded like a place off the main track where a train waits to be dispatched, i.e. isolated* but ready to go. “I can’t hold the wheel” could refer to the train brakes on each car. The refrain makes it clear that there is nothing to be done to stop the train from leaving. If so, the song may belong with songs of longing and separation. 

(*mid 18th century: from French isolé, from Italian isolato, from late Latin insulatus ‘made into an island,’ from Latin insula ‘island.)

I had a lot of fun with the song and I’ve asked my neighbor, a kalimba player, to learn the Brendan Taaffe/Adam Hurt version.

---

Jimmy Sutton - Posted - 07/30/2014:  06:52:46

Nestor and Edmonds version is quite fast but sounded even faster because it has mostly been re-issued at the wrong speed. It was Yazoo that finally got it sorted and reproduced it at the speed at which it was recorded which made the vocal sound less like a chipmunk.

I have pointed out already that the video above of the Four Virginia Luthiers playing this tune features the grandson of the original Fiddler Norman Edmonds.

Jimmy