revellfa - Posted - 06/13/2014:  09:39:25

Hello all,

This is such a good idea I've kept it to myself for the past year or so.  I'm a fan of hide heads--especially the ones that look old.  I had one on an old Kalamazoo that looked like it had a chaw spit stain on it.  That got me ta' thinkin'

I'd like to have a "tobacco stained head" using chewing tobacco/snuff.  If the stain is alcohol based I might even have a little moonshine around to make this happen

Any suggestions on how to create/apply a "dye" like this.

TheLastWord - Posted - 06/13/2014:  09:48:57

Hopefully John Balch will chime in. He's been selling and staining hide heads and started the hide head group.

rob_jenny - Posted - 06/13/2014:  10:23:40

start chewing up a storm with a swig of 'shine

Smurf2dope - Posted - 06/13/2014:  11:07:27

Do NOT mix shine with chew in the can.  That burns like no other. 

Otherwise good luck with your project. 

revellfa - Posted - 06/13/2014:  11:15:49

Alex--how do you know that? Experience???

Smurf2dope - Posted - 06/13/2014:  12:49:24

You could call it "experience". It's a cruel (and expensive) practical joke too. 

Ladelnutts - Posted - 06/13/2014:  13:06:36

Make up a batch of black walnut dye. Leather workers have used this method for hundreds of years.

practicalprimitive.com/skillof...tdye.html

Check out Will Ghormley's western reproduction work. That is what he uses for all the brown dyed leather. willghormley-maker.com

ks - Posted - 06/13/2014:  13:31:37

I dont mean to get off subject,but I've asked before with no response.How much maintenance is involved with a hide head and is the lifespan as long as a mylar head?

ks - Posted - 06/13/2014:  13:43:15

Woops posted twice

Edited by - ks on 06/13/2014 13:44:17

Dan Drabek - Posted - 06/13/2014:  14:05:03

Seems like it might stink a bit. How about tea?

ks, a hide head will expand and contract with changing levels of humidity. When it's humid, the head will go loose and the banjo will get plunky. You have to tighten it to get the sound back. When the air dries out, the head will shrink. You have to loosen it to avoid splitting. Maintenance is basically that of continually altering the head tension. Some folks don't seem to mind doing that, and some do. Those who do it tend to prefer the looks of a hide head, and some claim that they prefer the sound. Being somewhat lazy, I like the sound of a plastic head just fine. And in the case of the Renaissance heads, I also like the looks.

DD

Brooklynbanjoboy - Posted - 06/13/2014:  14:31:35

Frankie,

I'm not sure that anything that could remotely suggest support for people spitting chaw on banjos should be considered as good idea.  (Insert smiley face here).

Lew

Dan Knowles - Posted - 06/17/2014:  05:55:01

Frankie,

I too am a fan of the tobacco look. I've handled many instruments that have spent years in smokers homes and the amber tone is like no other. I think that smoking the head (similar to a meat smoker) may be the key. Tobacco or wood should impart different tones. The major problem I see is that the smoke must be cool when it meets the head or it will ruin it. Perhaps a long piece of stovepipe hooked to a smoker chimney, then to a smoking chamber... I've discussed several approaches to achieving this including making a smoking 'box' with a small pan to burn tobacco in to provide the smoke.

Alternately the stain could be made by seeping the tobacco in boiling water. Much like making natural walnut stain. This would give a chawed look!

Fun stuff. Good luck.

Edited by - Dan Knowles on 06/17/2014 05:58:27

jbalch - Posted - 06/17/2014:  06:24:46

I've used coffee, and tea, and even Dan Knowles' homemade walnut extract.  I have not tried tobacco.

I think you could "brew" the tobacco - much like you would tea or coffee.  Or maybe just dump some tobacco in warm (or hot ) water to steep for a while (then strain the tobacco away).  Use the stained water to soak the hide before mounting.

Keep in mind, lots of tobacco products have additives that might influence the color too.  Plus, tobacco is expensive compared to coffee (I use the cheapest ground beans from Kroger - not the really good stuff).

In my opinion, the stain which most effectively replicates naturally old soiled heads is the Knowles walnut extract.  The color of that stain looks very close to many of the 70+ year old (broken) skins I've removed from old banjos.

Check out the old head on the H.C Dobson banjo I used to have. I played it with that head for all the years I owned it.  No telling how old it was.  Sadly, when I sold the banjo - the new owner replaced the old head.

Edited by - jbalch on 06/17/2014 06:28:21

rudy - Posted - 06/17/2014:  06:46:09

Anybody use Hoimestead Industries #6006 Mission Brown (formerly labeled as tobacco brown)?

Since it's water soluble and fade resistant it seems like an ideal candidate for permeating a head by soaking a bit.

Hawgfiddle65 - Posted - 06/17/2014:  07:49:26

Hi...I see walnut hull powder / Van Dyck crystals on ebay .Would that stuff do the trick?...Jim

mikehalloran - Posted - 06/17/2014:  21:05:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by ks

I dont mean to get off subject,but I've asked before with no response.How much maintenance is involved with a hide head and is the lifespan as long as a mylar head?

---

I have skin heads that have been mounted for over 120 years. Plastic heads aren't as old as I am, first appearing in the late 1950s..

Other than that, climate is your issue. Radical changes in humidity cause constant adjustment - this can be mitigated a bit by waterproofing compounds but it doesn't go away completely. If you tighten a head too much when it's really humid, it can break when the weather is dry. In the temperate California climate where I live, this just isn't a problem. YMMV.