Kurt Kemp - Posted - 03/28/2014:  12:55:01

I ran across an old thread while looking for something else and found something that Cliff Fitch said about the fit of a Burlile tone ring. However, it was all hush hush and "PM me for details" and such. Well, I never did find what the secret was, if there was one. All Cliff said was that you do not fit these like other rings.

That got me thinking that maybe my tone ring test of the Burlile was not as good as it could have been. Anyone have any idea what the best fit is "supposed" to be? Tight, loose, snug? Slip fit or loose is what I have been using.

Thanks,

Kurt

Grey Dog - Posted - 03/28/2014:  13:04:26

Cliff is on facebook, and is still a banjo chatterbox.    :-)

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 03/28/2014:  13:13:17

I sent him a PM on facebook. He did some banjo work for me a number of years ago. Hopefully he remembers me. I'll report back the secret.

Call me the Edward Snowden of tone ring fit...

the-fish - Posted - 03/28/2014:  13:55:30

I recall cliff had to get some required training before he could be an authorized dealer. Hum. Maybe that was for the dannick ring? Lol

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 03/28/2014:  14:38:51

Ya I think that was the Dannick.

jbalch - Posted - 03/28/2014:  14:57:47

Why don't you ask Jim Burlile?

Hotrodtruck - Posted - 03/28/2014:  15:39:51

"Why don't you ask Jim Burlile?"

Maybe Burlile doesn't know the Fitch secret???

jbalch - Posted - 03/28/2014:  16:42:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hotrodtruck

"Why don't you ask Jim Burlile?"

Maybe Burlile doesn't know the Fitch secret???

No doubt you are right.  

Still think I'd ask Jim about the best way to fit his rings.  He has probably had as much experience with them as anyone. Arthur Hatfield is another who probably has more experience with them than Fitch ( I have nothing against Cliff).

Frankly, I think the "hush...hush" secretive aspect of discussions around this tone ring are a brilliant part of the marketing.  "I can tell you ... But I'll have to kill you if I do..."   

I own a Burlile ring in a great banjo. It is truly a fantastic instrument.  But it is just a banjo... No VooDoo.

jb

Arthur Hatfield - Posted - 03/28/2014:  17:28:12

Kurt you are right loose. 

Lester Crowe - Posted - 03/28/2014:  17:48:09

Arthur converted a 1-piece flange 2 for me and installed a Burlile. It's probably the best sounding banjo I have so he knows the secret! 

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 03/29/2014:  00:55:50

Thanks Arthur, I figured loose. That seems to work best for most rings. 

flatthead - Posted - 03/29/2014:  05:38:05

I apologize for steering off topic, but what does a typical Burlile tone ring weigh?  It seems like I remember them being more on the high side of 3 lb.....like 51-54 oz.

silvioferretti - Posted - 03/29/2014:  11:32:36

In my albeit limited experience I found that Burlap's rings favor a loose fit, they tend to sound kinda harsh with a tight fit IMO. 

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 03/29/2014:  13:53:38

The Burliles I have handled have all been heavier than most rings. 

Thanks for the fitment tips. From what I have been told it needs to loose and well seated on the top of the rim and a pretty tight head.

Arthur Hatfield - Posted - 03/29/2014:  14:11:58

I have found that all rings need a loose fit for the best tone. And also seated on top of the rim very solid unless the rim is no good then it doesnt matter.  

TR Dockery - Posted - 03/29/2014:  18:51:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by Arthur Hatfield

...unless the rim is no good then it doesnt matter.  

---

That made me laugh out loud here in the room by myself, Arthur; thanks for that!

Happy trails,

Randy

Timeless1952 - Posted - 03/30/2014:  18:16:38

You tell em "Popcorn"  Loose Loose & loose.   Some of Jim's rings where made to be a little heavier (54oz) because of Sullivan Floor Rims being used. Most of his rings other than that are 50-52 oz range. Not much mystery about the fit of this ring or as Arthur says any other Flathead ring.

K

 

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 03/31/2014:  05:40:37

Arthur,
If you don't mind me asking, what would be the sound characteristics of a ring being fitted to tight on a rim?
Thanks,
Ken

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 03/31/2014:  05:47:51

What I found for the burlile was a very loose fit and enough clearance below the skirt to allow it to seat really well on the top of the rim. So no secret, basically the same for every ring. I used to be in the "slip fit" camp but anymore the looser the better. Seems to open them up. Tighter fits cause the sound to be stifled or choked from what I can tell. Also kills some of the vibration we all desire in the instrument.

BANJOBOB549 - Posted - 04/05/2014:  08:08:16

A tight fitting  ring on any banjo will KILL the sound. I know of a original flathead Granada that was ready for a new owner until I convinced him the ring fit was the problem. Once tore down, it was discovered Gibson had stained and finished the whole wood rim, Side and top of rim. Once the finish was removed,  The ring would fall off by turning upside down. It was a completely different sounding instrument.   LOOSE = SOUND. 

NDJohn - Posted - 04/05/2014:  16:52:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by flatthead

I apologize for steering off topic, but what does a typical Burlile tone ring weigh?  It seems like I remember them being more on the high side of 3 lb.....like 51-54 oz.

 

---

The most recent three Burliles that have come through my shop have weighed 51.2, 52.0, and 52.7 ounces.  

As to fit, every Burlile I've mounted has dictated that the target rim have material removed. My conclusion has been that they have a slightly smaller i.d. than most.

Best,

John

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 04/05/2014:  16:55:27

I found the same thing. Both I tried were snug where other rings would be slip fit or looser.

Edited by - Kurt Kemp on 04/05/2014 16:56:03

scottgrass - Posted - 04/14/2014:  19:15:39

jbalch  what banjo is your burlile rim in?   I have one in a pre war oriole conversion. it is a thin walled rim and has the most base of any banjo I have tried. I live in Auburn, Al and when I play it the alabama fans complain about the growl.   david

jbalch - Posted - 04/14/2014:  19:29:15

I have a Williams Kenny Ingram model (#5).  The Burlile ring is on a Sullivan FF rim.  I'm not sure if Jim turned it heavy or not. But I know the rim was sent to Jim for fitting.  I have not removed the ring to check the fit. This banjo has a deep, throaty tone that I really like. 

i bet your old Oriole rim banjo us a killer. I'm impressed if it growls (like a tiger) and shakes them up over in Tuscaloosa.

bTW . My father graduated from Tuscaloosa with a PHD.  He also taught at Auburn.  I spent several childhood years in both towns.  We lived in a duplex on Tumor St in Auburn.

Jim Britton - Posted - 04/15/2014:  07:36:02

Hey Kurt, This has already been answered but here's my 2 cents. I recently acquired another Burlile ring (I AM SPOILED) and an old Stew - Mac rim from Jim as well. Jim did the ring/rim fit himself and there is PLENTY of "slop". Also allowing for the climate of middle TN.

-JB

 

---

Originally posted by Kurt Kemp

I ran across an old thread while looking for something else and found something that Cliff Fitch said about the fit of a Burlile tone ring. However, it was all hush hush and "PM me for details" and such. Well, I never did find what the secret was, if there was one. All Cliff said was that you do not fit these like other rings.

That got me thinking that maybe my tone ring test of the Burlile was not as good as it could have been. Anyone have any idea what the best fit is "supposed" to be? Tight, loose, snug? Slip fit or loose is what I have been using.

Thanks,

Kurt

 

---

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 04/15/2014:  08:09:41

Thanks Jim, that is what I am finding out from numerous places. Sloppy is better.

dickinnorwich - Posted - 04/15/2014:  08:29:03

Kurt, et al.

There is a fine balance between a "loose" fit and a "sloppy" fit.

If the fit is too sloppy, what I find is that the tone ring shifts when the neck is attached such that the inner edge contact of the ring to the top of the rim can be  compromised. So there is a fine line that you're always striving to achieve when you fit one of these babies.