revellfa - Posted - 03/14/2014:  06:18:07

Hello all,

Forgive me if this has been asked before but I'm wondering if there is any software/mixer out there that allows you to record several tracks at once and them mix them down individually later?

There is a great group in my area that has never been recorded before.  I'd like to get them down into my basement and do this but I don't know if it is possible or not.  

I realize that I'd have to isolate each mic and that there would be some spillover into the other mics but I don't want to multi-track this group--I don't think it's their thing.

eagleisland - Posted - 03/14/2014:  06:56:51

The answer is yes, absolutely.

There are some comparatively inexpensive systems that do this - self-contained DAWs, or Digital Audio Workstations. The Zoom R16 is an example; there are other options in this category. Once recorded you can import the tracks into whatever mixing app you like, including Audacity.

Alternatively, if you have a digital mixer (or an analog/digital interface) that permits immediate output to a system like ProTools, you can use that as well. This kind of hardware/software setup starts getting expensive, and requires some pretty powerful computing and transfer capabilities.

revellfa - Posted - 03/14/2014:  07:17:42

I guess my question is can I record the tracks all at the same time and then AFTER recording mix the individual tracks? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Old Hickory - Posted - 03/14/2014:  07:24:12

+1 on the Zoom R16.

Drummer in my former celtic band had one.  We recorded 8 simultaneous tracks at practices and then he mixed it all down in his computer into near studio-quality recordings.  Our setup wasn't perfect, so tracks aren't 100% free of other instruments, but he managed to keep bleed through to a minimum.

The device records to SD card, which makes transfer to computer easy.

He bought this for around $400 in 2010, not long after I had paid the same amount for a Fostex recorder that can only do 4 simultaneous tracks.  I got some good results with that, too.  But 8 is so much better.

sundance kid - Posted - 03/14/2014:  08:12:10

quote:

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Originally posted by revellfa

I guess my question is can I record the tracks all at the same time and then AFTER recording mix the individual tracks? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

---

Yes.  How many tracks do you want to record?  There are USB interfaces with multiple microphone inputs, such as the Tascam US-600 or Akai EIE I/O(4 mic inputs) and Tascam US-1800 or Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 (8 mic inputs).  You may also be able to find a USB mixer that will let you record the individual inputs, but if you want to do the mixing in your computer you really don't need a hardware mixer.  Or you can go the route that others have suggested, with something like a Zoom R16 or a Tascam24, record onto SD card and then transfer the files to your computer for mixing...

Software may come with the interface, or you may need to find some DAW...)

the software that came with your computer probably won't be able to do it (maybe if you've got a Mac

5-Picker Tim - Posted - 03/14/2014:  08:29:31

Frankie,

As stated the answer is yes but I think you might have some terminology confused.

You said you didn't want to 'multi-track' this band but that's EXACTLY what you are asking if you can do.

I believe maybe in your stated reluctance to multi-track, you are are thinking of multi-track "layering" where one person plays their part, then the second plays to that track and so on and so forth until the entire song is constructed.

That is typically NOT the way studio recordings are accomplished.

Today's technology allows most folks to emulate studio style multi-tracking with a plethora of options.

I'll +2 on the Zoom equipment.  I have a Zoom R24 recorder that multi-tracks extremely well and extremely easy.

We can get into pages and pages of discussions on what is best and what are the proper procedures but just keep in mind that the entire premise of multi-tracking is to allow the ability to manipulate each track individually.

That premise pertains to both the recording of the track and the mixing/effects processes of each track.

During recording, if one person flubs up, the rest can just keep on playing to the end.

Then, the track that needs correction, can be re-recorded or fixed with a "punch-un - punch-out" at the mistake.

During mixing/editing, corrections to pitch and effects such as reverb or other things can be added without affecting other tracks.

As an example... you might want a small amount of reverb on the banjo track but want the mandolin track dry & woody sounding.

Also, if it is a singing song, most bands use the process of laying down the instrumental tracks first with what is referred to as a 'scratch vocal.' which is nothing more than a vocal track that isn't used in the final mix but gives the players something to play off of.

Once the instrumental parts are recorded, the lead and harmony vocals can be tracked.

Really, really good bands can record live to one mic but remember, if one person makes just one tiny mistake... everyone must redo their entire parts and hope it goes off a second (or third or fourth) time without a hitch.

Again... these things just scratch the surface but home studios and basement recordings have evolved tremendously with modern technology.

Tim

edited to add content

Edited by - 5-Picker Tim on 03/14/2014 08:32:08

revellfa - Posted - 03/14/2014:  08:38:21

Tim. Thats great info. Thanks.

rudy - Posted - 03/14/2014:  09:27:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by revellfa

Hello all,

Forgive me if this has been asked before but I'm wondering if there is any software/mixer out there that allows you to record several tracks at once and them mix them down individually later?

There is a great group in my area that has never been recorded before.  I'd like to get them down into my basement and do this but I don't know if it is possible or not.  

I realize that I'd have to isolate each mic and that there would be some spillover into the other mics but I don't want to multi-track this group--I don't think it's their thing.

---

Yes. With reservations.

Multi-track recording is used as a catch-all phrase to describe capturing instruments and vocals on individual tracks, either together OR recorded separately.

Virtually any "software/mixer" that I'm aware of will allow you to do that, BUT you need an audio interface (hardware) that will have the number of channels you require.  Audio interfaces generally have a pre-amp and analog to digital converter for each channel, and the price starts blossoming as you up the number of channels you desire.  The larger problem is getting a computer to record all of these channels reliably without clicks, pops, noise, or other things that ruin your efforts.  You can spend a considerable amount of money and time to do it.

If you want to do it easily and in a comparably inexpensive manner you should consider capturing your audio first THEN transferring it to a computer where it can easily be non-destructively sliced and diced into a finished product.  My preferred device is the Zoom R24, and you can read why I prefer it as well as other tips on my "Simple Homestyle Recording" page here:

bluestemstrings.com/pageRecording1.html

I've done a few bands this way, the most recent 6 instruments and 2 vocals simultaneously, with additional instruments and vocal overdubs recorded before transferring to computer for mix down.

Be aware that the MUCH LARGER issue is assembling a good selection of mics to use.  Unless you're recording an electric guitar cabinet you'll need something beyond dynamic mics if you're looking for it to actually sound good.  Yes, there are good dynamic mics, but you're not going to find them priced cheaply like the SM57 at $90 a crack.

Old Hickory - Posted - 03/14/2014:  09:35:41

quote:

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Originally posted by revellfa

I guess my question is can I record the tracks all at the same time and then AFTER recording mix the individual tracks? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

---

Yes.  That's exactly what I described in my answer.

The band played live (at practice), with all instruments recorded to separate tracks and one track for all the voices (PA head line out). That was the only way to do it.

Most of our recordings were of the electric country/folk rock side of our repertoire. Bass was a line out from the amplifier.  The two electric guitars might also have been line out from their amps.  If not, they had mics right in front of each amp.  When we recorded banjo, I played with a pickup into the bass amp so it went straight into the recorder.  Since I played both bass and banjo, there was never both in one song.  Only the drums were recorded in a way that could have picked up other instruments; even then, he used very directional condenser mics on them and one mic inside the bass drum.  Our fiddle player was also the lead guitar player, so on songs with fiddle, I assume we just swapped outputs and the line out from one guitar amp was simply switched to the fiddle's preamp out -- same as it would go into PA at a gig.

Mixing is an art in itself. Our drummer was getting very good at it. He produced some very good recordings before he died.

banjo800 - Posted - 03/14/2014:  11:08:53

As others have stated, you must first possess the hardware. And it's actually NOT cheap, regardless of what others lead you to believe. There are sound card solutions such as the M-Audio Delta 1010LT. It has 8 in and 8 out. BUT you will also need software, microphones, and a fairly powerful PC. ProTools M-Powered is the most popular DAW software for the 1010, but there are dozens of others. Careful consideration will be needed for the mics, A good vocal mic does not always make a good instrument mic and vice-versa.
Your first stop should be Musicians Friend. Then search for some PC DAW sites. They will guide you a little more. I would think a modest outlay of 500-800 dollars to make a decent DAW, (Digital Audio Workstation). I picked the Delta 1010 because I am somewhat familiar with its capabilities.

These are some items I just found on eBay. Prices are Buy it Now, not bids:

Delta 1010 - $249.00 (Not just a PCI card, but has a breakout box that the mics plug into. It's a little better than the 1010LT)
ProTools - $145.00
8 Microphones from Musicians Friend - $400 - 500 (depends on type and brand).

So, right there is $800-$900

There are other solutions, just search Ebay for deals.

I still have a couple of 4 track cassette recorders. Both are Yamaha. They work really well, but limited to 4 track. Only 2 or 3 if you need to bounce and overdub. I also used to have an 8 channel Gadget Labs Audio interface. It worked very well but did not like a certain thunder storm we had......I used it with Cool Edit Pro and some cheap mics, but my cheap mics sounded cheap, so beware of that aspect. I've blabbered enough, others will suggest other possibilities, so take it all with a grain of salt. Even this. Good luck!

J.Albert - Posted - 03/14/2014:  17:49:23

One other thing worth mentioning about the Zoom standalone recorders (R16 and R24) is that they come bundled with Cubase, which is excellent DAW (digital audio workstation) software for your computer (comes on a DVD bundled with both versions, Mac and Windows).

Cubase is a great blend of power and usability, but more importantly, it has a mild "learning curve" vis-a-vis some of the other DAW apps out there.

To the original poster:
Do you know how many channels you're going to need?
That is, how many mics? (one channel for each mic)

pearcemusic - Posted - 03/14/2014:  18:34:27

keep in mind that there is a LOT of used audio gear available.

If you are willing to buy a generation or two back you can find great deals, and the gear is VERY good.

One example:

ProtoolsLE 6.4 for winXP and a digi001 (single PCI slot required) has 2 mic pres on board and 6 additional inputs.

8 inputs in all and I'm sure you can find that combo for $100.

Like Rudy said, with the right mics and pres you can make a CD with that combo ... simultaneously recording 8 mica at a time, or doing the aforementioned one track at a time overdubbing.

32 playback tracks with all of the EQ, compression, bussing etc that you would need.

cnoe - Posted - 03/15/2014:  08:53:06

You could also rent something like the Presonus 16.0.2 desk to record up to 16 tracks simultaneously onto you laptop. Afterwards you could mix it on you computer.

Old Hickory - Posted - 03/16/2014:  09:16:17

quote:

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Originally posted by banjo800

As others have stated, you must first possess the hardware. And it's actually NOT cheap, regardless of what others lead you to believe. 

---

The Zoom R16 is only $400 and comes bundled with DAW software.

You can use it as a standalone recorder -- no need to record to computer.  But you can use it for recording into the computer if that's the way you prefer.

You transfer files easily from the Zoom to computer either by SD card or  drag-and-drop over USB.

It's an inexpensive way to start and can be all that many people need.

Sure, you CAN spend more, but you don't have to.

rudy - Posted - 03/16/2014:  09:48:10

If you're recording more than 2 channels simultaneously and you're considering the Zoom R series it's MUCH better to spend the extra $100 and step up to the R24.

The display is easier to navigate, you'll get 8 more tracks to overdub (you might not consider that into the decision, though), but the BIG advantage is 4 more additional channels with phantom power.  If you're serious about capturing the acoustic fidelity of the instruments you'll be using condenser mics, and the R16 only has phantom power on two channels. Having the 4 extra phantom powered channels will greatly reduce the need for external phantom power, which will actually simplify your recording methods AND save money on purchasing additional equipment.

Conversely, if you're a bit overwhelmed by the whole concept of recording, and overdubbing / multitracking in general, the R8 comes in at $300, has built-in mics that do an acceptable job of capturing your instruments and vocals, and you can plug a set of headphones in and start recording with nothing else needed.  You can pop batteries into any of the R series and go record anywhere you want.  You can record your first CD at the park!

Edited by - rudy on 03/16/2014 09:56:35

JoeDownes - Posted - 03/16/2014:  10:12:40

With our band we use the Mackie Onyx 1620i and an old ibook to record. You don't need a new laptop for the recording process. The nice thing about a recording mixer is that you get a full functional analog mixing desk and in a digital recording solution all in one piece of gear.

Edited by - JoeDownes on 03/16/2014 10:13:59

Trewq36 - Posted - 03/17/2014:  13:08:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by revellfa

I guess my question is can I record the tracks all at the same time and then AFTER recording mix the individual tracks? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

---

Simple answer.. YES...

But  first to record multiple tracks, you need Hardware that can handle the number of inputs/instruments you want to record.

That gets into $$$ per channel..... How much you wannna spend?

Edited by - Trewq36 on 03/17/2014 13:11:48

Old Hickory - Posted - 03/17/2014:  13:45:50

quote:

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Originally posted by Trewq36

 

But  first to record multiple tracks, you need Hardware that can handle the number of inputs/instruments you want to record.

That gets into $$$ per channel..... How much you wannna spend?

---

Once again: No.

You only need the hardware you're talking about if you want to record directly to your computer. And that does get expensive.  But you don't need to go that route.

Devices such as the Zoom R16 ($400) and R24 are complete self-contained mixing boards AND multi-track recorders.  You can record 8 simultaneous tracks directly to the SD card in the recorder.  Don't know how many times we can say this. Then you simply copy the recorded tracks to your computer by USB.  No special hardware per channel is required for that.  If the Zoom works the same as my Fostex in this regard, each track will be a separate file.  So you bring all the tracks for any song into a folder for that song on your computer then bring all the tracks into Cubase, Protools, Reaper, or even Garageband -- whatever multi-track mixer/DAW software you're using.

For many home recording purposes the Zoom R16 for $400 is a great solution.  If the room you record in is good and you know what you're doing in a DAW, you can get outstanding results. 

Trewq36 - Posted - 03/18/2014:  07:36:05

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

............For many home recording purposes the Zoom R16 for $400 is a great solution.  If the room you record in is good and you know what you're doing in a DAW, you can get outstanding results. 

 

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Well you're suggesting he spend $400... I was just asking how much he wants to spend.

sundance kid - Posted - 03/18/2014:  17:54:24

So it seems we have established:

1. It's possible.

2. There are several ways to go about it.

3. Every possible way involves spending some money.

4. Most people have a favored approach - i.e., the way THEY would do it.

5. There seem to be a lot of Zoom fans in this forum.

To the OP (revellfa): Is that all the information you need, or do you want more specific proposals based on budget and number of tracks?  If all your questions haven't been answered, you're going to have to provide us with more information.  If so, I think we're done here.

Helix - Posted - 03/18/2014:  19:20:53

It depends on what you are recording with and how much storage.

Technique is something here: Some people record the vocal and guitar, then later re-record new tracks and dump the originals. Duets anyone.

Chuck Mangione always recorded live in the studio, vocalist and all.

We did this with 5 people and vocals for a one-take, very cost effective. We used baffles so we could all look at each other, couldn't see each other play, we faced the center.

Pre mix is the key. Cut a disc and step outside to the speakers in your car. Mix down can be more minimal then.

Bleed over is just inevitable without glass booths. A conical path has been unexplored.

AT THE BANJO HANGOUT WITH FRIENDS CAPO, PIX & STRAP

philipE - Posted - 03/18/2014:  19:53:53

Audacity.com

Free and Professional Sound Recording ..... infinet track layering ..... can hear what tracks you've recorded as you add another track .....

for Windows and Apple and everything else out there i think

free ... included are many effects .. maybe 25 .. and there are hundreds more for free download ...

I have been using this program for about 10 years and it is amazing and gets more-so with each update ....

YOU'LL LOVE IT !