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BlowingRockNC - Posted - 01/28/2014: 05:28:05
I really prefer the OT sound, which is one reason why my three main banjos have skin heads. To date, I haven't had any problems with the skin heads, even with temp and/or humidity changes, but maybe I've just been lucky. I've read that the Remo head is becoming very popular with the custom builders and on the OT scene. Is this true? Which is better if a person is seeking the OT sound? I've also posted this over with the Builders, but I thought it would be good to ask here too. Thanks.
Edited by - BlowingRockNC on 01/28/2014 05:28:44
banjopogo - Posted - 01/28/2014: 07:51:50
Frequent summer destination for clawhammer players with custom banjos = Clifftop Festival
Frequent event at Clifftop Festival (from video evidence) = RAIN!
I'm guessin' jamming crowded under a tarp with the water pouring off inches from your banjo head is more of a challenge than a nice warm house.
I use to have a skin head on my banjo back in the day (70's) but I find I can tweak my Fiberskyn head to sound a lot like calfskin with masking tape under the head. The sound can also be tweaked with different bridges. Whether tape on the head or a different bridge, part of it is just having more mass to offer the strings more resistance.
And I gig with it, and even with the Remo Fiberskyn head, it's the most problematic tuning-wise of the three instruments I use in a nursing home performance.
Those places are 10 degrees warmer than anywhere else most of the year, and in the summer the A/C is always on. Even though it's Mylar, just because it's thin, a banjo head is going to react to the difference in temperature. I just couldn't see having a head that would be even MORE prone to changing because it was reacting to the humidity too. (My fiddle bows also react... the hair tightens in the heat, goes slack in the A/C.)
And for those doing big-time serious concertizing, there are stage lights, and those put out heat.
And at jams, the fiddlers and guitar players are already putting up with the banjo player changing tunings. The quicker and more predictable that process is, the happier they are going to be.
Anyway, for an instrument you leave at home and play for your own enjoyment, I'm sure calfskin would be fine. But the more changing of environments your banjo goes through in the process of jamming, festival-hopping, or getting to gigs great and small, the less desirable I think it would be.
Extra seconds tuning at home are no big deal... when the show or the jam "must go on", those seconds seem like minutes.
Also, keep in mind that Remo has different flavors of heads.... in addition to Fiberskyn, the Renaissance heads are popular with Old Time players. The frosted and the cloudy mylar heads are more likely to be used by Bluegrass and plectrum banjo players because they are brighter.
BlowingRockNC - Posted - 01/28/2014: 08:51:03
Thanks for your detailed response. It was just what I was hoping someone would provide...a lot of details based on personal experience. Thanks again.
maneckep - Posted - 01/28/2014: 10:00:37
I personally don't like Fiberskin heads. I have banjos with real skin heads and Renaissance heads. I like the sound of both of them. In the summer I learned after one trip to Clifftop to bring a banjo with a Renaissance instead of a skin head. The skin head sagged really bad that first trip and was unplayable until it was back inside and dryer.
To me the Renaissance sounds more like a real skin head than any other type of synthetic head.
banjered - Posted - 01/28/2014: 10:36:58
It depends a lot on what sounds best to you. Generally, a thick fiberskin head is good to tone down an overly bright banjo such as the aluminum pot banjos. Ren heads are thinner and sort of a compromise between skin and fiberskin. It basically boils down to you won't know what a banjo is going to sound like with a certain head until you actually try it. I recently got an Enoch 300 that had a fiberskin head on it. Then I put a skin head on it, then a Ren head. So far the Ren head sounds best and I am still trying to dial in the sound which for me is somewhere between a clear ring and a warm, round thunk. I have an old Stewart with a skin head that I put on and it sounds wonderful. I sprayed the daylights out of it with Kiwi/Walmart waterproofing and have had zero problems with head slacking even in moist weather. How tight/slack you tighten the head on all of these makes a BIG difference on how they sound. We are all doomed to perpetual experimentation - ha! Banjered
BlowingRockNC - Posted - 01/28/2014: 10:51:17
Did you spray the Kiwi on the top or the bottom of the skin head, or both? And when you say your sprayed it a lot, did it leave a bad feel or look to the head, or did it just sink in or evaporate with the skin head looking completely normal? It would be great to know. Thanks.
jbalch - Posted - 01/28/2014: 12:52:46
Bill:
For sake of disclosure, I sell pre-mounted hide heads (and use them on my banjos) - so I am biased.
If you do decide to go with hide, I recommend using something that is not too thin (I prefer .013-.016 in.). That way you can establish enough tension that the head is well stretched and relatively stable. Set the crown low enough that the new hide has room to stretch as it seasons. The tension hoop should initially sit up above the top of the head allowing for about 1/4" of stretching.
I spray new heads with leather waterproofer. I use a SofSole product from Dick's sporting goods. Remove the head form the banjo and spray the top, bottom and crown. It is invisible and makes no impact on sound. I don't think it completely solves the issue of stretching in very humid conditions, but it might help.
Plastic heads are absolutely fine. I used them for many years (still do on one bluegrass banjo). They are reliable and have a sound that many pickers prefer. Hide heads are NOT for everyone. Some folks have strong aversion to any variability. But my personal experience is that the problems are sometimes overstated.
But ... natural hide heads do require some attention. They are not "set-it-and-forget-it." But I use them on all my banjos in many different conditions including jam sessions, festivals, and occasional gigs in Nashville. I do sometimes adjust the tension. But it is no more hassle (to me) than tuning the banjo.
In the end, it is a matter of personal preference. I love the sound and feel of hide heads and have had very good experience with mine.
Best wishes!
BlowingRockNC - Posted - 01/28/2014: 13:09:57
Again, my thanks to all. I simply didn't know about the spraying idea. Interestingly, I live in the mountains where moisture and temp changes are quite an issue, and I haven't had any problems with skin heads. I guess I better knock on wood or something. Another way to look at it is that I'm just not good enough to hear the difference, but I do tap test with some frequency.
jbalch - Posted - 01/28/2014: 13:56:14
In my opinion, treating the head is an extra - but possibly unnecessary - precaution. I do it on the pre-mounted heads I sell - as an added service. But I really feel that a good quality hide, properly mounted, and well-seasoned is what works best. Just takes a little time, patience and the right attitude.
Edited by - jbalch on 01/28/2014 13:56:56
twelvefret - Posted - 01/28/2014: 14:03:28
John,
Your products are very nice. I didn't realize you had them for sale. 
Dan-Ban - Posted - 01/28/2014: 14:21:05
Banjopogo, putting masking tape under a fibreskyn head sounds like a trick to try. Where do you put it? Under the bridge? How much tape?
jbalch - Posted - 01/28/2014: 16:32:29
quote:
Originally posted by twelvefret
John,
Your products are very nice. I didn't realize you had them for sale.
Details here: banjohangout.org/blog/31283
DEmery - Posted - 01/28/2014: 18:19:00
Heads and how folks feel about variation in different conditions is a personal choice. The need for minor tweaks doesn't bother me and I (also bias) use Balch Hide Heads on all of my banjos. Nearly all are goat skin but I do have a Stern Hide that John mounted on my Thoroughbred. They are not only beautiful in my view; but perform extremely well with each being selected for thickness, appearance, and crowned to allow for seating. It is good that today there are so many good options that provide players options that meet their personal expectations and preference. As for humidity; I grew up in middle Tennessee where it is humid a good amount of the year, have lived in places in the Midwest and northeast with variations in dryness and humidity, and not reside in Florida with plenty of heat and humidity. Skin heads well selected seem to do just fine. John indeed sells them and each one has been a fine choice and are used on any banjo delivered by a builder used. David E.
OldPappy - Posted - 01/29/2014: 06:37:55
For a brighter sound I like a 5 Star (Ludwig?) bottom coated head. I have used these when I wanted to get a little more volume out of a banjo, but I mostly use the Remo Renaissance heads on OT banjos.
I have used a hide head from time to time, and if treated with a good waterproofing they are okay, but still seems like they require more tension adjustments than a plastic head, so I don't use them very often.
The Renaissance heads seem to stretch a little more than some other plastic heads which means it takes just a little longer to get them set in, but once they finish stretching I like them better than any other I have tried.
Many people like the Fiberskyn heads because they want a particular tone, or response, but I do not like them, and usually have one or two I have taken off banjos, and am happy to swap for any other type of head. Right now I think I have a new condition 11" Fiberskyn taken off an almost new banjo the owner wanted a brighter tone out of. If anyone wants to swap another type head in decent condition just give me a PM and we can split the postage, and be happy as fat hogs.
Ianinuk - Posted - 01/29/2014: 06:58:59
I like Renaissance heads except for the transparency. I'd rather not be able to see my tone damping cloth stuffed in the back when my banjo is parked on its stand.
OldPappy - Posted - 01/29/2014: 07:09:47
Like I said, I'll trade a Fiberskn for that Renaissance, and then you probably would no longer need to stuff a "tone damping cloth" in the banjo. Unfortunately I see you are in the UK and shipping would probably cost more than a new head.
Some people coat the backside of a Renaissance head with a thin coat of a spray paint made for plastic. This may dampen the tone a tiny bit, but takes care of the transparency.
RV6 - Posted - 01/29/2014: 07:15:52
quote:
Originally posted by Ianinuk
I like Renaissance heads except for the transparency. I'd rather not be able to see my tone damping cloth stuffed in the back when my banjo is parked on its stand.
I cut a circle of black construction paper and placed it behind the Ren. head on one of my banjos. My stuffing foam kept it in placed. I thought it looked good. --- Bob
jbalch - Posted - 01/29/2014: 07:21:59
I think fiberskyn heads can be great for OT. I personally prefer them over Renaissance - for stability, look and sound. If I were not using natural hide, I'd probably return to fiberskyn.
BTW: I recorded both of my cds with OEM fiberskyn heads on my Reiter banjos. Both were produced before I began using skin heads. I think they sounded good and were obviously quite reliable.
sound samples:
cdbaby.com/cd/balch
cdbaby.com/cd/balch2
J-Walk - Posted - 01/29/2014: 08:13:05
quote:
Originally posted by Ianinuk
I like Renaissance heads except for the transparency. I'd rather not be able to see my tone damping cloth stuffed in the back when my banjo is parked on its stand.
You can always paint the underside of the head. Here's one that I spray painted black, but you can get creative and use two or more colors and create a mottled look that resembles hide.
