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banjoracle - Posted - 08/23/2013: 18:33:33
I play both 5-string and Plectrum banjo. Having started out on 5-string I adopted the DGBD tuning for the Plectrum. This tuning seems to work real well on the Plectrum for a number of reasons. For example, using the standard Y chord (e.g. G chord at fifth fret) it is easy to make many four string chords with the root at the bass. For example, starting at the first string 5th fret and moving down the neck on that string while holding the G chord at the other strings you get: at the 5th fret = G maj; 4th fret = Maj7; 3rd fret = Dominant 7, 2nd fret = 6. Generally easily fingered inversions can be simply made by moving down the 4th string in the same manner as the first string just described. It seems very difficult to have a fourth
Additionally, scales are easy to play given the compact layout of the patterns on the fret board.
I have tried to think of the advantages of playing a Plectrum banjo using a CGBD tuning, but find it difficult to find any advantage other than an open low C note available when playing in the key of C, the lower tone quality of the lower pitched fourth string, years of convention, and the unique sound character of this tuning that may be distinguished using the CGBD tuning. Of course their will be some chord inversions that are more easily fingered using CGBD but I think, on a whole, the DGBD tuning offers more easily fingered chords and scales. It seems very difficult to get easily fingered four string chords with the root on the fourth string using CGBD.
I am interested on others thoughts on the subject.
Edited by - Texasbanjo on 08/24/2013 05:40:48
Rob MacKillop - Posted - 08/23/2013: 23:47:53
You might find more answers in the 4-string forum rather than the Music Theory forum?
seanmoyses - Posted - 08/24/2013: 05:59:51
I use this tuning because I came from 5-string too. It was not a choice of what tunings really, we only knew "Earl Scruggs and the 5 string banjo" that had chords for a banjo of exact similar length without that little 5th string. It works fine for me.
Regards,
Sean
seanmoyses.com
jasbo - Posted - 08/24/2013: 06:18:03
The advantage of Sub bass or Classic Banjo tuning CGBD is with the chord voicings . With the three inversions of your prime chords the interval relationship of the lowest two tones are able to sound the 5th, Minor 6th, or Major 6th . This would not be practical with the lowest tones tuned a 4th apart.
KingStudent - Posted - 08/24/2013: 06:34:36
"any advantage other than an open low C note available when playing in the key of C, the lower tone quality of the lower pitched fourth string, years of convention, and the unique sound character of this tuning that may be distinguished using the CGBD tuning."
Those are the advantages!
1) The open low C serves as the root of the C chord (of course), the 5th of F, the 3rd of Ab, etc. This is very useful when making arrangements in C-friendly keys. For example, I'm working on plectrum (CGBD) arrangements of 20 Scott Joplin rags right now, and with that C I can more easily retain his original keys (I would have anyway, but it's easier with that open C). More generally, the open low C is non-redundant, that is, you have 4 distinct open string notes instead of 3, and I exploit this in my open-string method book (and in its soon-to-be-released follow-up!).
2) Maybe it's psychological, but I really like having that low "bass" note (C) as opposed to D. I've played both tunings, on 4 and 5-string, and somehow I always liked CGBD best even since starting with Pete Seeger's book long ago.
3) Years of "convention," or perhaps tradition: I agree that we should not be irrationally weighed down by tradition. However, the plectrum method books of the 20th century (early, middle and late) all use this tuning, and are very valuable resources for technique and musical styles.
4) The unique sound character: I do find it to be unique, for the above and other reasons.
Not that there's anything wrong with DGBD! One could list many advantages for that tuning too, as Banjoracle has done. So it's a matter of preference, as are most things banjo. Just my $.02.
banjoracle - Posted - 08/24/2013: 13:29:48
quote:
Originally posted by seanmoyses
I use this tuning because I came from 5-string too. It was not a choice of what tunings really, we only knew "Earl Scruggs and the 5 string banjo" that had chords for a banjo of exact similar length without that little 5th string. It works fine for me.
Regards,
Sean
seanmoyses.com
I'm curious, Sean, what was your source for all the different shapes of the various jazz chords and inversions. I first used a cavaquinho chord book printed in Portuguese, since the cavaquino is tuned DGBD and utilizes many jazz chords in the Brazilian Choro style. From there I began figuring out my own voicings.
Jeff
jasbo - Posted - 08/24/2013: 22:18:38
Check it out, if your two lowest tones are tuned a 4th your usual chords consist of an interval of a 4th ,Major 3rd or Minor 3rd in the bass, yet by tuning them an interval of a 5th you are able to play chords with either a 5th, Minor 6th or Major 6th in the bass.
banjoracle - Posted - 08/24/2013: 23:40:08
quote:
Originally posted by jasbo
Check it out, if your two lowest tones are tuned a 4th your usual chords consist of an interval of a 4th ,Major 3rd or Minor 3rd in the bass, yet by tuning them an interval of a 5th you are able to play chords with either a 5th, Minor 6th or Major 6th in the bass.
Jasbo - What you say is true; and thats what gives the chord voicings of the common chords with the two types of tuning a different characteristic sound. Do you think there is a particular reason that the CGBD tuning was adopted? Were the first plectrum banjo players looking for a tuning that allowed them to form chords with a 5th, minor 6th, or major 6th interval between the 4th and 3rd strings. Did this serve some musical purpose for them? Were these intervals thought to be more pleasing to the ear? More jazzy?
Compass56 - Posted - 08/25/2013: 01:42:10
It seem to me (and I don't play plectrum, so I don't know anything) that the C string tuning offers more pretty dominant chord shapes than the other tuning offers. After reading this thread, I tuned the first four strings of my 6-string guitar both ways, and I found more 7th, 9th, 11th, and 13th chord shapes that I liked with the C string tuning than I did with the open G tuning.
On the other hand, I think Sean Moyses uses that open G tuning, and he finds everything he needs everything he needs in it, and much more.
KingStudent - Posted - 08/25/2013: 06:24:21
Jasbo - What you say is true; and thats what gives the chord voicings of the common chords with the two types of tuning a different characteristic sound. Do you think there is a particular reason that the CGBD tuning was adopted? Were the first plectrum banjo players looking for a tuning that allowed them to form chords with a 5th, minor 6th, or major 6th interval between the 4th and 3rd strings. Did this serve some musical purpose for them? Were these intervals thought to be more pleasing to the ear? More jazzy?
According to my reading they simply took this tuning (CGBD) over from the banjo styles and tunings prevalent at the end of the 19th century, including classic banjo. See, e.g., this thread from BHO and this one from the Classic Banjo site.
pcoopy - Posted - 08/25/2013: 10:32:32
If your are an experienced 5 string player you should already be doing a lot of stuff in C & D tuning. i,e. Wildwood FLower. Some plectrum chords are harder to make in G tuning and sound different.
'Nuther old 5 stringer switched to plectrum.
Phil
jasbo - Posted - 08/25/2013: 12:24:28
banjoracle Having greater interval spacing in the Bass is usually applied for most Harmony in all music.
This is even done for piano chords, or for various guitar tunings , and of course Bass . The beauty of chords is mostly established by using the intervals of 3rds , yet 3rds will slowly become more muddy the lower into the bass register one goes, so skipping intervals in the bass sounds more pleasing. Before the early 1900s American Banjo tunings were pitched lower down to A or G, so this could be have been a factor why open G didn't catch on until much later after the higher C pitch banjos became the standard adopted by the English school.
Muskrat - Posted - 08/25/2013: 15:55:04
quote:
Originally posted by jasbo
Having greater interval spacing in the Bass is usually applied for most Harmony in all music.
Yes, bravo. This is often forgotten, but actually supported by laws of nature.
Edited by - Muskrat on 08/25/2013 15:55:47
Mike Moss - Posted - 08/26/2013: 02:07:11
quote:
Originally posted by jasbo
banjoracle Having greater interval spacing in the Bass is usually applied for most Harmony in all music.
This is even done for piano chords, or for various guitar tunings , and of course Bass . The beauty of chords is mostly established by using the intervals of 3rds , yet 3rds will slowly become more muddy the lower into the bass register one goes, so skipping intervals in the bass sounds more pleasing. Before the early 1900s American Banjo tunings were pitched lower down to A or G, so this could be have been a factor why open G didn't catch on until much later after the higher C pitch banjos became the standard adopted by the English school.
The "English" and "American" schools mostly applied to notation, not actual tuning. Some Americans still tuned their banjos low, but there are plenty of indications that Americans were tuning their banjos up to C as early as the 1880s.
From S. S. Stewart's Banjo and Guitar Journal, Feb-Mar 1888:
Ibid., Dec 87-Jan 88
Thus, it can be said that the English school simply notated banjo music at actual pitch, one octave lower, as in guitar music (suboctave clef).
