Clockwork John - Posted - 06/18/2013:  23:46:47

A friend of mine is taking over management of the "kid friendly" activity center/party space where I played a while back, and she asked me if I'd be interested in playing there twice a week. Now, I like the idea, I like the place, I like helping my friends, and I could use the extra practice...



But if I'm doing it regularly, as opposed to every once in a while, then it kinda becomes something like a job, right? And if me playing music for the kids brings people in and brings in money for the business, then it only seems fair that I'd see a little bit of that sent my way, right? This place charges per kid for activities/events, and a flat rate for parties.



So, anyway, how much should I ask to get paid for playing twice a week, probably a half hour set (I can't imagine kids staying focused for much longer than that), for a bunch of kids and their parents?

Edited by - Clockwork John on 06/18/2013 23:48:59

figmo59 - Posted - 06/19/2013:  03:13:34

I dunno....

I allways hadta paid folks just ta sit ..n...listen..ta me ...playin...


N...Combat Pay....at that..!



Mebee try ....tips...?

Edited by - figmo59 on 06/19/2013 03:23:35

steve davis - Posted - 06/19/2013:  03:23:58

Find out what others are getting for similar work.

How far do you have to travel.1/2 hour isn't very long.

jistgreg - Posted - 06/19/2013:  03:28:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

 

Find out what others are getting for similar work.



How far do you have to travel.1/2 hour isn't very long.

---

Hi, I'm one of the "others."  I charge $25 to get me out of the house & cover gas; $25 per half hour to perform.  But that's just me.  You may be worth more, or they may only be able to afford less. 

I wish you success, and remember, the most important part is that you have fun doing it! 

KE - Posted - 06/19/2013:  04:43:43

I'd love to play a gig like that!  But I wouldn't pay them any more than $20 an hour seeing as how I can do it on the street corner for free. 

DeanT - Posted - 06/19/2013:  06:11:16

$25 an hour

dat - Posted - 06/19/2013:  06:39:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clockwork John



A friend of mine is taking over management of the "kid friendly" activity center/party space.....................I like the idea, I like the place, I like helping my friends, and I could use the extra practice.. .

---

are there any volunteer workers there or all paid? 

jbanjoist - Posted - 06/19/2013:  06:43:30

You weren't offered compensation? If not I guess they are thinking you are volunteering?

Good luck with that.

Seems to be a common tale. "Would you come and play for our such and such" with no mention of pay.

banjoman56 - Posted - 06/19/2013:  06:54:12

Maybe you could get a deal like Earl had for his first gig, "all the catfish you can eat". :)

steve davis - Posted - 06/19/2013:  07:06:33

If this person is getting paid for what she is doing, she should pay you for helping her cause.

BANJO TONY - Posted - 06/19/2013:  07:15:32

bottom line,no pay no play.you have to eat.

AndyM - Posted - 06/19/2013:  07:40:55

We're a 5-piece bluegrass band and when folks ask us to play for nothing we suggest they hire 5 plumbers and we'll play for half of what you have to them.  Hee, hee.....

dpete210 - Posted - 06/19/2013:  09:15:22

I believe a good way to approach this would be to have a conversation with your friend about your concern before you ever play.  Then once you know if she is asking you to play for free you can either accept or politely say no.  If she is willing to pay you, then you can talk about how much.   Her expectation of how much might be very different from what has been suggested here or even your own expectation.    Armed with a clearer understanding of the situation, you will go a long way in helping to avoid a misunderstanding or disappointment on your or your friend's part.  If she is wanting free music and you aren't willing to do this twice a week, you can suggest playing on a once in a while basis, if you are willing to do that, of course.    Best wishes in sorting this out.  

Penel - Posted - 06/19/2013:  10:02:04

Of the suggestions $25. per hour (or what ever the other entertainment gets paid), don't cut that price for fractions of less than an hour. Make it $25. or what ever up to an hour. 



When I interpreted for the Deaf I had a 2 hour minimum. If the job only took 15 minutes, I still got 2 hours of pay. That was the standard set by the profession. 

People need to know their gas money and transportation time is covered. 

Clockwork John - Posted - 06/19/2013:  10:09:33

I agree that 1/2 hour isn't very long, but how long can 2 to 7 year-olds really stay interested in one thing?

As far as playing for tips, I don't think my wife would be too happy with me bringing home soggy cheerios and paste-covered popsicle sticks...

We haven't discussed details yet. Scheduling, set length, and compensation(or lack thereof) haven't been addressed yet. She just threw the idea out there, and I wanted to get an idea of what would be reasonable to ask before we sit down and work out some sort of agreement.

dat - Posted - 06/19/2013:  10:24:31

Livin' in the city

Ain't never been my idea of gettin' it on

But the job demands that you make new plans

Before your big chance is gone.



You get a house in the hills.

You're payin' everyone's bills

And they tell you that you're gonna go far

But in the back of my mind,

I hear it time after time,

Is that who you really are?



Country boy, you got your feet in L.A.,

But your mind's on Tennessee.

Lookin' back, I can remember the time

When I sang my songs for free.

Country boy, you got your feet in L.A.

Take a look at everything you own.

But now and then, my heart keeps goin' home.

 I thought about this song 'cause once it turns into work, sometimes the fun isn't there

Edited by - dat on 06/19/2013 10:31:46

Moxley - Posted - 06/19/2013:  10:25:15

Do you have the tab for 'the wheels on the bus' or are you playing by ear ?  What banjo tunes to you play for that age group?  They'd probably be frightened to death if you broke out in foggy mountain breakdown on a loud banjo....

Joe the banjo guy - Posted - 06/19/2013:  10:46:15

Yeah, for a half hour gig, I'd say $20 would be enough for me, assuming you're not having to drive too far or set up a bunch of sound equipment.

Clockwork John - Posted - 06/19/2013:  11:33:24

I have a book that has 195 children's songs, rhymes, and lullabies that I would be working from. I play an old, plunky tenor. Far less scary than a loud BG tone monster.

Constitutional Peasant - Posted - 06/19/2013:  13:36:24

Tell them you're only about 1/2 as good as Raffi, so you'll only take half of what he used to get per show.

jistgreg - Posted - 06/19/2013:  13:44:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by dat

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clockwork John



A friend of mine is taking over management of the "kid friendly" activity center/party space.....................I like the idea, I like the place, I like helping my friends, and I could use the extra practice.. .

---

are there any volunteer workers there or all paid? 

---

Mike Gregory's Grumpystiltskyn Jug Band regularly volunteers at the Coffee House in Milwaukee for the local food pantry benefits. 

But, of course, the OP was asking what to ask for. 

DeanT - Posted - 06/19/2013:  15:36:11

My mention above, of $25 per hour, is from actual experience. That's what both bands I'm in charge in general. $25 per person per hour.  Of course we negotiate different circumstances, but that's where we start. And Penel is right on, we don't go less if someone wants less than an hour. 30 minutes is still $25 per person. It's not worth starting the car and driving across town for less.

prewartb3 - Posted - 06/19/2013:  17:04:47

Never be ashamed to charge what you think you're worth. Mr Goodwrench just bit me for $90 per hour to get a rusty air bag sensor replaced in my front bumper. 2.5 hours plus a flat $60 initial diagnostic charge. Nobody else besides the mr wrench could do the job.

Hankon5 - Posted - 06/19/2013:  17:12:47

How about for free for awhile and that would donate your time.....and you gain valuable experience!!!

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 06/19/2013:  20:24:46

If they want entertainment, they should be willing to pay for it. You can die from "exposure." You spent time learning your instrument, learning and memorizing songs, rehearsing, overcoming butterflies,and may possibly spend time deflecting sticky pizza fingers from your banjo. "For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward."
I have played a lot of coffee shop gigs for "$20 or 5% of sales, whichever is greater." I guess it depends how much business the venue does. They may not be able to afford a lot, the best paying gigs seem to be venues with an alcohol license. I don't think I would charge less than $25/hour. For bar/ restaurant gigs, I would figure double that. Kids venues, I still figure the $25 minimum. Though the only "kid" gig I ever did was on an extended layover in Denver Airport. There were a couple of single parents with active 3 or 4 year olds there, and they got pretty antsy waiting. Mrs. Wanda had her uke with her, so I played a bunch of kids songs to occupy the kids and let the parents sit for a while. I was almost as antsy as the kids, and needed to pick a while any way. No cash, just smiles, a good gig all the same.
Paul

Penel - Posted - 06/19/2013:  21:23:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hankon5

 

How about for free for awhile and that would donate your time.....and you gain valuable experience!!!

---

an internship?

or should he get an invoice of his "donation" of time so he could declare it as a charity at tax time? When activities bacome a job people should be compensated. They shouldn't have to pay out of pocket for the expenses of getting to and being there. 

edavidt - Posted - 06/19/2013:  21:26:29

I consider myself pretty amateur, but when I play a private gig, I ask for 100 dollars per hour.  That would include up to 3 musicians, and if a dance, I would do the calling.  That would be for private parties, or gigs that are not open to the public.  If it was a regular gig and a business, I would consider that a fair rate.

For a solo act, I would consider a minimum of 25 dollars with a rate of $50.00 per hour.

On the other hand, if a venue is open to the public, and it serves a general "for the good of society" purpose, I might play just for tips or the door.  For example, our local dances,  whoever agrees to do the band and call just have to split the door, after hall rental.  So that is usually the least paying situation. Each musician and caller may walk away with $25 for 3 hours of playing and calling.  But I don't mind that because lots of young farmers and boat workers come to the dance, have a gloriously fun time, dabble in romantic adventures, and go home pretty happy. Definitively "for the good of society."  Just watching the 20 somethings on the dance floor is reward enough.

banjerman - Posted - 06/20/2013:  07:06:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by jbanjoist

 

You weren't offered compensation? If not I guess they are thinking you are volunteering?

Good luck with that.

Seems to be a common tale. "Would you come and play for our such and such" with no mention of pay.

 

---

             Your right on the money with this one. That is exactly what they want. Used to happen to us all the time until we asked them if they get paid. Its like this, if you want to play for them then have at it by all means but you will never know if they could have paid you and didnt want to.

Jim Yates - Posted - 06/20/2013:  07:39:18

If the venue is making money and the audience is expecting entertainment, then you should definitely be compensated.  I've never been paid by the hour for music, it's always been by the gig and the price varied according to certain conditions: How far was it?  Was it a weekend festival with workshops as well as performances or a coffee house gig with two or three 45 minute sets?  $25 sounds like a rock bottom price to me.  We always* get at least $100/player and no one seems to think that's unreasonable.

*Okay, I'll admit to playing charity gigs and benefits gratis, but I'm thinking of gigs like weddings or where the venue is making money.

Clockwork John - Posted - 06/20/2013:  09:31:52

I'm not above playing for free. I've done benefit shows in the past, and I've got another benefit show for the Wounded Warrior Project coming up in July. I'll also play for drinks, if I'm doing a small or free show at a local place. I'm doing a free show at a local brewery in July also, and I'm getting comped drinks in lieu of payment.

I'm gonna get together with her and discuss this idea. My bottom line is that if I'm being treated as a part of the staff (set hours, expectations, etc), then I expect to be treated as staff (compensation). If I want to play for kids for free, I'll stay home and play for my son.

plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 06/20/2013:  11:20:17

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clockwork John



...... I'll stay home and play for my son.

---

 That's one way to get their allowance of 'em  

Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 06/20/2013:  14:13:51

Paid! ? You're gonna get paid?

Actually we did a lot of freebees for Seniors homes, or charitable groups etc. Vintage 1970's we got $20 to be split among the three of us at a few Coffee Houses!

Mutha

Edited by - Pluckin Mutha on 06/20/2013 14:14:24

steve davis - Posted - 06/20/2013:  14:23:25

It's always best to talk things over before starting.

banjoghost - Posted - 06/30/2013:  23:24:51

gas money and a free meal. don't be greedy, they can get by just fine without you. half hour set, twice a week to kids? do it if you enjoy it and use the stage time to learn.

Klondike Waldo - Posted - 07/01/2013:  13:08:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penel

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hankon5

 

How about for free for awhile and that would donate your time.....and you gain valuable experience!!!

---

an internship?

or should he get an invoice of his "donation" of time so he could declare it as a charity at tax time? When activities bacome a job people should be compensated. They shouldn't have to pay out of pocket for the expenses of getting to and being there. 

---

Nice idea, Penel, But the IRS doesn't recognize time donated as beingtax-deductable.  As far as expenses, The standard mileage rate is 14 cents per mile for use of an automobile in rendering gratuitous services to a charitable organization.  ( from the IRS website.)

Martian - Posted - 07/05/2013:  07:30:00

the problem with "exposure", is that you expose yourself as a free entertainer. We , ( a 5 piece bg band), charge at least $50 each, but is a sound system and some travel is required, $100 ea. I still play for free alot. It really depends on the cause, ( charities, church, benefits, etc). I think you have to seporate things there are favors, that you do by choice, and gigs/ jobs, which require pay. Now and then I get a call for a gig, or job that is free. I explain to caller, when I find out it is a free job, there is no such thing as a free gig, that is a favor. when I worked, I did not go to my "job" for free

Banjophobic - Posted - 07/08/2013:  07:12:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clockwork John

 

A friend of mine is taking over management of the "kid friendly" activity center/party space where I played a while back, and she asked me if I'd be interested in playing there twice a week. Now, I like the idea, I like the place, I like helping my friends, and I could use the extra practice...



But if I'm doing it regularly, as opposed to every once in a while, then it kinda becomes something like a job, right? And if me playing music for the kids brings people in and brings in money for the business, then it only seems fair that I'd see a little bit of that sent my way, right? This place charges per kid for activities/events, and a flat rate for parties.



So, anyway, how much should I ask to get paid for playing twice a week, probably a half hour set (I can't imagine kids staying focused for much longer than that), for a bunch of kids and their parents?

---

It pretty simple-you are either donating your time or you are expecting pay. If you are donating your time and both parties understand it as such, there's no need to even talk pay.  If you want to get paid, enter in an agreement ( contractual is best) and specify your rate. You need to figure in your travel costs and then decide what per hour rate you are worth. 

You can also negotiate this as a partial 'exposure' gig, where you will do it for free for a short time. If the business is liking the music and it gets positive feedback, you will then get paid a preset amount.  Whatever you do, get something in writing,signed. Working on handshakes and good intention usually means you are out in the cold.  

Anyway you approach it, its all about both parties communicating well.

banjoy - Posted - 07/08/2013:  07:21:58

Do what we do. Show up for free, they have to pay you to leave ...

... you can set your own price by then ...

Edited by - banjoy on 07/08/2013 07:24:08