jbalch - Posted - 05/30/2013:  14:00:38

I'm sure it has been done before, But I had occasion today to try a Bill Rickard Dobson tone ring on a 12" Enoch tradesman.

The ring fit perfectly and really sounds great.

The banjo belongs to Tom Mortensen.  Tom contacted me about making a new goat hide head.  Since he lives near-by, Tom brought his banjo for me to install the hew head.

While I had the banjo disassembled, I decided to see if a Rickard Dobson ring would fit on the Tradesman rim.  Lo-and-behold, it fit perfectly.  The impact of the head and tone ring were fantastic. We topped it off with a compensated bridge from Arthur Hatfield.  The changes totally transformed the sound of the banjo (IMHO).

Edited by - jbalch on 05/31/2013 16:01:36

the-fish - Posted - 05/30/2013:  15:01:13

Ive been running mine this way for 3 years. It really is a great config

rubicon - Posted - 05/30/2013:  19:47:22

How a bout a sound sample man that is a good looking head 

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 05/30/2013:  20:31:55

quote:

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Originally posted by rubicon

 

How a bout a sound sample man that is a good looking head 

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+1 on the sound sample (but you probably don't have the banjo any longer??)

Trentvalleybanjo - Posted - 05/31/2013:  02:02:24

Hi, to fit the Bill Rickard Dobson tone ring on a Tradesman is it just a matter of removing the tension ring  and head , slipping on the tone ring and refitting tension ring and head, also the one you fitted was it the plain brass or nickel plated. Would be interesting to know the difference in tone from the original set-up. Thanks.

jbalch - Posted - 05/31/2013:  04:31:23

Maybe Tom will post a sound sample.  We didn't think about recording anything with it while he was here.

To my ear, the changes totally transform the character of the banjo.  The rim became immediately more responsive. You can feel it vibrate now ... is a real "belly-tickler".

I did not set out to alter the banjo so significantly (intended just to install a head). I broke my own rule -changing more than one thing at the same time (head, bridge and tone ring) without the opportunity to evaluate each component individually.

 The tone ring was a spare that actually has a couple of small bends to the inside rim (mainly cosmetic). When the banjo was disassembled, it occurred to me to experiment just  to see if it fit. When it went on so easily I had to see how it sounded. I liked the results so much that I did not want to remove it.

I personally like the changes a lot. -So let me put it this way: if I owned a tradesman, I'd be on the phone to Bill Rickard today.

Edited by - jbalch on 05/31/2013 04:32:22

tombleu - Posted - 05/31/2013:  05:59:14

Let me point to the more important ingredient to sound.

When John Balch played my banjo, it sounded great.

When I play, there is more left to the imagination:)

Give me a few days to post a sound sample with Dobson tone ring.

The new Balch head is still settling in. Also, at some point, I will remove the Dobson ring, just to sample the Tradesman with Balch head/no tone ring.

I have found the sound of the stock Tradesman to be useful and pleasing as long as I keep a sock or cloth in the back, but when listening to other players and banjos, I am consistently interested in "plunkier" tones.

The Balch hide head probably moves the Tradesman closer to a plunkier tone (depending on head tension) but the Dobson tone ring works on some other aspect that is better described by someone with John Balch's experience.

Honestly, i have no idea what I'm talking about:)

Thanks to John for his willingness to share his knowledge with a newbie.

Here are a couple of samples of my Tradesman with stock setup. Recorded with my iPhone voice memo app.

youtube.com/watch?v=zvdby_Hebpc

youtube.com/watch?v=typyetxU-qE

youtube.com/watch?v=ljKeEvjBmDo

Trentvalleybanjo - Posted - 05/31/2013:  07:45:15

All three sound great, is the stock setup with a renaissance head ?  what strings are on that set up ? Look forward to hearing the sound file with new tone ring.

Edited by - Trentvalleybanjo on 05/31/2013 07:46:31

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 05/31/2013:  08:28:08

This is doing nothing to help my BAS (which I had a handle on)

tombleu - Posted - 05/31/2013:  09:14:56

Spring N13a is my Enoch Tradesman 12" Banjo with John Balch goat skin head and Dobson tone ring.

D'Addario String Set J55 (.010 .012 .016 .023w .010) and stock Tradesman bridge.

Spring N13b is the same banjo without the Dobson tone ring.

Spring N13c is the same banjo all stock set up.

All are recorded with my iPhone voice memo app.

The tone ring slips right over the Tradesman rim.

When I refer to the stock Tradesman setup in an earlier post, that does include the renaissance head.

I hope these are good representations.

Edited by - tombleu on 05/31/2013 09:24:46

Spring N13c

Spring N13a

Spring N13b

banjo bill-e - Posted - 05/31/2013:  09:55:44

Tom, do you still feel the need to stuff with a sock?

Bill

tombleu - Posted - 05/31/2013:  10:04:54

Yes, I have a sock in all of these recordings. 

jbalch - Posted - 05/31/2013:  13:03:41

Tom:

All of the samples sound great.  You have this i-phone recording thing down. I hope you are pleased with the new components.

I will add that (IMHO) the banjo felt great to play after the changes. Improved responsiveness and presence is hard to capture in any recording. You have to experience those things in-hand to really evaluate.

Trentvalleybanjo - Posted - 05/31/2013:  13:17:09

Tom, thanks for the info and real nice playing . May look at getting a Dobson tone ring for my Tradesman.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 05/31/2013:  14:40:02

Curious if this combo gets you the same banjo as buying an Enoch Dobson model? Or are there other differences between a Tradesman and a Dobson besides the tone ring? 

Bill

DEmery - Posted - 05/31/2013:  15:35:29

That is a super result and really nice combination giving the Tradesman a very nice voice. I was always impressed with the Tradesman neck profile and simple appointments. For me the multi ply thin rim needed something else and the Dobson tone ring did it. Thanks for posting the sound sample. I am impressed with how it sounds and looks. David E.

jbalch - Posted - 05/31/2013:  15:56:39

quote:

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Originally posted by banjo bill-e

 

Curious if this combo gets you the same banjo as buying an Enoch Dobson model? Or are there other differences between a Tradesman and a Dobson besides the tone ring? 

Bill

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The Enoch Dobson model has a different rim - it is thicker and two-ply maple I think. There are other mainly cosmetic differences too - including a small but nice engraved star inlay and upgraded hardware.

Here are photos of a Enoch Dobson I briefly owned.

Edited by - jbalch on 05/31/2013 16:02:17

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 05/31/2013:  19:02:29

I am wondering how a tone ring fits onto a woodie rim without having to lathe the rim?

banjered - Posted - 05/31/2013:  19:16:52

Fits like the right size plate put on a cooking pot. Nice recordings, very musical tones in all recordings. On my computer the Dobson did sound better, but not all that much. I believe John when he says "live" it is even more noticeable. Thanks! Banjered

jbalch - Posted - 05/31/2013:  20:05:16

Bill's Dobson tone ring is sized to fit a Keller drum shell - which is slightly less than 12" (11 15/16" maybe).

I recommend you consult with him before attempting to fit to your rim.

Edited by - jbalch on 05/31/2013 20:06:54

BTuno - Posted - 06/01/2013:  07:59:30

In a thread about how to repair a split original Dobson ring a few months ago, I recall a statement by one that has seen many, that it was most likely caused by using a plastic head over the old brass. Plastic requires more tension to achieve tone, and puts too much pressure on the thin brass ring. Have any others experienced this problem. My personal preference is skin anyway, as reinforced by the above sound clips.

jbalch - Posted - 06/01/2013:  15:02:46

I think Bill Rickard's Dobson tone ring is thick & sturdy enough for a mylar head.  It seems more so than some of the (split) vintage Dobson's I've seen.

But ... I too prefer hide heads for many reasons including: sound,  responsiveness, and appearance.  (shameless self promotion??? - maybe)