djangonut - Posted - 05/22/2013:  11:32:48

Accompanying a jazz band on banjo,  I have always allowed the instrument to ring by holding down the chord.  On acoustic guitar,  to get the Freddie Green feel,  I am "lifting off" my left hand chords after every beat.

Recently I saw a video with Don Vappie,  playing tenor banjo on an Eric Clapton/Wynton Marsalis session.  Mr. Vappie was creating a hard-driving funky sound,  but appeared to be lifting off -  just like a guitarist.

Have I been playing my tenor banjo wrongly for 50 years by letting the instrument ring?

(The video of the whole live session is fabulous with great Vappie banjo solos on "Ice Cream" and "Corrine Corrina",  wonderful tremolo on "Closer Walk",  and interesting backing rhythms throughout.  There are several clips on Youtube.  Wynton turns into a second Louis Armstrong,  especially on "The Last Time",  and I even enjoyed some of Clapton's solos when I got used to the incongruity of a loud electric blues guitar sound with a King Oliver style line-up!  The star for me though was the young trombone player, Chris Crenshaw, who as a Marsalis sidesman I am sure could play in a much more modern style,  but who confined himself to an authentic blues and tailgate idiom.  Brilliant.)

John

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 05/22/2013:  12:08:19

John,

I have a draft for a long PM for you laying on my computer - regarding the from-me-to-me present icw. your anniversary in August - as spoken for.

I hope being able to send the final PM at the end of this week or early next week - I´m extremely busy these days - preparing myself for some exciting gigs and festivals this and next month.

But - the topic in this your thread is extremely interesting and important - I do have a lot of comments - this is f.ex. some of the stuff, that I´m teaching established jazz banjo players - however I´ll not post my comments here at BHO - easy to tell why from recent threads here - if possible I´ll add some comments to the PM as mentioned above. And maybe later we could have a Skype or phone conversation about the stuff. I would love being in direct contact with you.

Polle

haildixon - Posted - 05/22/2013:  21:34:45

After playing for 50 years are you really asking if you're doing it right, or is that more of a rhetorical question?

Cause, I mean, there's no right or wrong way, just sympathetic playing.

djangonut - Posted - 05/23/2013:  01:44:37

Thanks Polle.

Haildixon - you are so correct.  You play according to the company that you are in,  and what the music requires at the time.  I shall try a little "lifting" on an appropriate occasion,  and perhaps get some of Don Vappie's drive!

John

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 05/23/2013:  01:53:04

John I.,

Don Vappie has persistently developed/changed his sound, playing style and various techniques over many decades - however 6-8 years ago, while studying St. Cyr, Barker and others, he totally changed the set-up of his tenor banjo - in order getting f.ex. both the snappy prewar sound of a skin head and the postwar mellow sound with increased performance in the low mid and bass range, that some Mylar heads can give. He told me about this back then - I´ve since noticed, how his playing has developed on basis of this set-up. 

John - I´ve noticed from one of your rare vid recordings, that you´re in fact sometimes using an invisible damping technique on your banjo - not a real lifting - but more of a light pressure release. Do maybe notice, study and develop this technique - you´re maybe not aware of your present use of it.

Besides - your recording shows, that the banjo used has a very uneven sustain along the fretboard - ringing very much when fretted low - and very dry when fretted high. You´ll all the time hear tenors sounding like this - but it can actually be corrected/balanced on many tenors - by a skilled wizard.

So - you´ll most likely not have to change your playing style/techniques in order getting a more dry sound - when/if wanted - a suited tenor and a suited set-up will most likely help you getting it.

As an example of a tenor with the best possible sound and sustain equality across and along the fretboard - my main axe - not at all sounding like Don´s tenor - it´s set up in another way - but nevertheless he very much enjoyed playing it some years ago:

acoustudio.dk/BASS%20TREMOLO%202.wav 

Polle

aroblin - Posted - 05/23/2013:  03:37:23

Thanks for posting this clip of your music, Polle. The banjo sounds great....and so does your playing. VERY nice and interesting tremolo. I would like to hear more.

Andrew

banjopaolo - Posted - 05/23/2013:  06:27:16

Have I been playing my tenor banjo wrongly for 50 years by letting the instrument ring?

In my personal view there isn't a wrong o right way: you can choose what tecnique use according to the Music you are playing and to the sound you want to use...
Best
Paolo

Compass56 - Posted - 05/23/2013:  11:54:19

Cynthia calls this technique "choking."

Compass56 - Posted - 05/23/2013:  14:58:18

At least I THINK that's what she called it.

majesty - Posted - 05/23/2013:  15:23:56

"Lifting" as you called it is a great technique that is very driving when backing up a hot jazz band. At a fast tempo, it is almost impossible to realize that the there is an interruption in the chords.I was taught this technique many years ago. Since your fingers lift between beats, the fingers are a lot less sore after a long job. Also, it instantly tends to kill overtones. On a slow tune, it is not as interesting. That is my opinion only.

djangonut - Posted - 05/23/2013:  22:59:01

Thanks for the advice Polle - and the clip.

I wasn't aware that I was recorded anywhere on the net.  Where did you find me?

John

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 05/23/2013:  23:40:51

John,

I managed to find you playing "All Through The Night" by yourself - a few years ago at Pershore Jazz Club - however today I can´t find the clip.

Polle

Compass56 - Posted - 05/24/2013:  03:10:27

When I first started playing tenor, my natural inclination was to lift the fingers. It was very difficult for me to not automatically lift on every tune. Keeping the fingers down for rhythm playing was not at all natural to me. I quickly learned, however, how important the fingers down technique is for swing playing. Now I use the fingers down technique much more often than the lifting technique, but I still occasionally lift when it is appropriate to do so.

My favorite way to back other players in a swing context is definitely fingers down quarter note downstrokes.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 05/24/2013:  03:30:25

John I.,

As for lifting, choking, invisible pressure release and other left hand 4-string techniques - here´s an early master of the past - Jack Bland - recorded in 1929:

youtube.com/watch?v=VcbBkm3JNz...&NR=1

Here he´s playing in a totally different way - do enjoy:

youtube.com/watch?v=yICfHWvLhJ...endscreen

As for your from-me-to-me soon-to-come anniversary present - do maybe consider a combination of this and the present for the following anniversary in 5 years - I have Jack Bland´s custom built 1930 B&D Silver Bell No. 3 Ne Plus Ultra tenor here and for sale - the only SB with a XXL 14" resonator ever built - its performance is as extraordinary as its looks and mint condition:

Why not spoil yourself?  LOL!

Polle

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 05/24/2013:  04:02:45

PS!

Anyone,

Price?  Don´t ask.  If asking - you´ll most likely not have the funds needed - LOL!

However - in order giving you a hint - do start thinking ab $13,000 ~ €10,000 ~ £8,600 - and going upwards.

Compass56 - Posted - 05/24/2013:  04:04:29

Now that's a breathtakingly beautiful piece of art.

djangonut - Posted - 05/24/2013:  22:43:26

What an extraordinary instrument, Polle!  The stock market is up at the moment and I could do a bit of profit-taking.  However my accountant - other title "wife"-  would raise eyebrows and voice.  "Why do you need another banjo".  So for a little marital harmony,  I shall decline that wonderful instrument,  and settle for something in a more modest price range.  At the moment I worry about taking my gold Ome Mogul out on gigs - tomorrow to the Solihull Jazz Festival playing with the Bob Wilson Jazz and Swing Band.   How much more so with such a one-off machine?

John