R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 01/18/2014:  09:55:36

Mimmo;

I think the most important information given here is that Nylguts have serious problems with breakage.
I was a loyal Nylgut user until recently, and it was the problems with string breakage that caused me to
switch to a different brand. In all fairness, I do think that the condition of the tailpiece is probably a
major factor, but other brands of string seem not to be quite so delicate.

Now a question, just out of curiosity:
I have heard that the main market for Nylgut strings is for orchestra musicians...
violinists, violists, and 'cellists, and also players of the lute. Is this true?
If so, we are fortunate that you are giving attention to banjo-players which are
probably a small portion of your market.

I would imagine that due to the method for fastening strings on the violin family instruments
there is little or no problem with breakage. Still, for us banjo players, this is probably the
major issue with Nylgut strings.

csbdr - Posted - 01/21/2014:  10:45:34

Mine finally went. My son accidently flipped my bridge flat. I had to loosen the strings to stand it up, then retensioned them. The whole set had been on a couple months, I think. Seemed fine, but came back a couple hours later to play and 2 strings had snapped sitting in the case.

Nuts - Posted - 01/21/2014:  15:14:42

quote:

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

Mimmo;



I think the most important information given here is that Nylguts have serious problems with breakage.

I was a loyal Nylgut user until recently, and it was the problems with string breakage that caused me to

switch to a different brand. In all fairness, I do think that the condition of the tailpiece is probably a

major factor, but other brands of string seem not to be quite so delicate.



Now a question, just out of curiosity:

I have heard that the main market for Nylgut strings is for orchestra musicians...

violinists, violists, and 'cellists, and also players of the lute. Is this true?

If so, we are fortunate that you are giving attention to banjo-players which are

probably a small portion of your market.



I would imagine that due to the method for fastening strings on the violin family instruments

there is little or no problem with breakage. Still, for us banjo players, this is probably the

major issue with Nylgut strings.

---

Any plucked stringed instrument designed for low tension strings is a good candidate for Nylgut strings. I buy Nylgut 6 string sets exclusively for my 1907 Washburn parlor guitar. Most early parlor and likely all romantic parlor guitars where designed for gut strings, Nylguts are a modern gut string alternative. The Nylgut strings work fabulously on my Washburn and the guitar has amazing bottom end for such a small instrument with these strings. These are sold as sets with 3 wound strings on the bottom and 3 solid Nylgut on top. Several times, I have had the low E string break upon initial tune up. While frustrating when it happens, it is not enough to send me looking for alternatives.

I have never had a solid Nylgut string break, if properly installed. The wound strings seem to be more susceptible though. I have installed dozens of Nylgut sets on banjos, many of them being converted from steel strings. It is VERY important to smooth and debur any surface coming into contact with the Nylgut strings. If this is not properly done, you will break strings. The all Nylgut sets have proven to be quite durable when installed correctly and last a good long time. The complaint I hear most about the all Nylgut sets is the feel of the larger string diameters required. If converting from steel, it's quite a difference but one should play through that and get used to the new feel.

R. D. are you breaking solid strings or having problems with their wound strings? Where do they break? That will likely point to where the problem is.

Crandall - Posted - 01/22/2014:  09:00:20

Ha!

I'm a bit late to the party but I ordered a full Nylgut set and chose "no wound" as my 4th string option.  4th was red.  This was months ago.  I really didn't think anything of it and knew nothing of the new series coming out.   For the record it did slip, then I just tied it better. 

I was at the Portland Old Time gathering last weekend coming out of the bathroom with my banjoo hung low and some guy came up to me and said "what's up with your red Nylgut!?".   I just said it came in a pack and was probably just how the unwound came.

Thinking maybe he knew more than I did.   So what's the bigger problem, breaking or knots slipping?  Breaking might just be due to stretching them to much over too long of a scale length.  I personally like the sound of it better than wound.  Every time I hit a wound for just one note it throws me off.

Mimmo, I love Nylgut and put them on everything I own, please don't stop.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 01/22/2014:  12:27:36

I doubt he plans to stop making Nylguts for banjo. Those of us who don't like them are in the minority - and strings are problably the most personal item a frets player buys. When I played flamenco guitar I used exclusively La Bella Black Nylon Strings with Gold Basses for years Nothing else! I liked Saverez, but the Black and Gold set was MY string. Most people I knew hated them. There is no way in Heck I would go along with most people - especially on nylon.

My strings for Jackie O (my only current nylon strung banjo) are Chris Sands Classic Banjo Heavies. The Sands are made of a harder nylon than other brands and are much smaller than most. 

In steel strings I don't much care about brand and buy for the sizes I prefer  10-13-16-22 or 24 wound-10  for my 25.5 inch scale Ramsey. My short scale Woodchuck Specials use the same long strings but I'm thinking about going up a size or two on a couple strings. The short scales also have a super short 5th string and I use 12s or 13s for it. 

Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 01/22/2014 12:30:21

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 01/23/2014:  17:37:49

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nuts

R. D. are you breaking solid strings or having problems with their wound strings? Where do they break? That will likely point to where the problem is.

---

The solid strings.... consistently 1st strings, but also the occasional 5th, and on banjos that had no previous problems with the brand.

At that point I took Tony's advice and went with the Chris Sands and opted for the heavies... never say never, but I don't think I'll be switching back. I really like them.

Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 01/23/2014 17:39:23

ClayTech - Posted - 01/23/2014:  19:35:57

I've used light nylguts for the past year, and I love them. I tried out the reds a couple of weeks ago and found them to be lacking in pluckiness. So I took them off and tried a set of medium nylguts, which sounded dead. Medium steel strings also sound dead on my banjo. So I put the reds back on but with a different bridge, a 100 year old barnwood two foot minstrel style from Stringbean, and after a few days of settling in, they sound great! I'm still getting used to the feel, though. They definitely have a different texture to them. But they seem to be smoothing out a bit as I play them.

rinemb - Posted - 01/24/2014:  17:51:57

I put nylguts on a 1800's stewart over 5 years ago.  A year ago or so I also switched to a Veerman two-footed bridge,  Never broke a string yet in the 5 years.

I guess I am lucky.  I am not brave enough to try the Reds yet.

Brad

mimmo2us - Posted - 01/30/2014:  02:43:13

Ok guys.
Thanks. very informative to me
So the final decision was to preserve a set all nylgut (all white I mean) and a set with the 4th red. I stopped the wound one because most of you guys hate these rusty and short life strings. That's fine.
Mimmo

DEmery - Posted - 02/17/2014:  07:09:26

I have followed this tread for a while and have been amazed about the level of interest with nearly 9K views. Clearly folks have preferences or issues with anything banjo; and this thread reflects a range of opinion. I did want to come back after having Reds on a flush fret for a few months. I have used Nulgut for years and like many think they perform well.

In short...., I will probably re-string my Burns slot head with Nylgut Reds when strings need to be changed..., or before. I find for me that the Reds are stiffer, seem to have more "grab" due to a less slick finish, have proven to be durable and stable, and for some reason puts an edge on the note that classics may not. On the rare occasion I had a problem with breakage; it was my fault. Too much tension too fast is not helpful in my experience. Too, slippage is a tying issue. Some years ago I had Bob Flesherbuild me a minstrel banjo and I studied his tying method. It has always worked and produces a clean, tight knot.  

I know there are Chris Sands fans and a range of views. My purpose is to say I have had them in use for a while and the longer I use them....the more I appreciate them. Odd thing is on a darker stained banjos; I even think the look nice. Some photos exaggerate the color and it is for sure not for everyone. Around Valentines and even Christmas; they are especially appropriate.

David E.

David E.  

SoundsGoodToMe - Posted - 02/17/2014:  10:53:30

I'm trying out the red strings and I'm very happy with them so far.  They've been up to tension for about three weeks, mounted on Peghed tuning pegs and a Rickard no-knot tailpiece using angler's perfection loop knots, running over a regular ebony-capped bridge and bone nut. Stabilized quickly and have stood up to daily playing with no broken strings.

Compared to the white set with the wound fourth string, the overall sound is a bit brighter.  The red unwound fourth's timbre is much more consistent with the sound of the higher strings, and also considerably louder and more responsive than the wound fourth.  The rougher surface texture doesn't seem to affect slides and pull-offs much mechanically, but it does increase the string noise a bit.

stevel - Posted - 02/27/2014:  16:15:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevel

there's a set of these red strings on my recently acquired Brooks Masten banjo. i like them so far (i could care less about the color).



i don't know how much, if any trouble the previous owner had getting them on. i have them tuned a bit low right now, fCFAC / fBbFBbC and haven't decided if i'll try bringing them up to G or A.

 

---

Well, its been 3 months now, so I figured i'd come back with an update.

As of today, I have yet to break a string.  I probably play 5 times a week, at least an hour per session.  The sound is fantastic.  The grittier feel gives your fingers a bit more bite when fretting or picking.

Now, I have to admit, I've never tuned up to G.  Since I "try" to sing when playing this banjo, every tuning I use is below modern pitch.  So think F and Dbl Bb tunings like mentioned above.  I've gotten used to the feeling with a bit less tension, so they're not floppy feeling to me.

However, I have been using about 12 different tunings per week.  So these strings are constantly being adjusted.  I think PegHeds tuners would be better suited than the 5 Stars due to the gear ratios, but I'm not about to swap them out any time soon.

The Red strings are starting to show some wear.  There seems to be minor fraying right where the string contacts a fret.  The fraying is awfully similar to how my Gut strings start to break down.  So its clear they won't have the longevity that the original NylGuts have (I have had several sets last years sans the wound 4th).  I just received 3 new Red sets from Elderly's today.  I'm certainly curious to see if I encounter breakage issues when a string is finally due for replacement.

If I don't have any problems with the newer sets, I can't see myself using anything else..... at least on this Brooks banjo.

In fact, I plan on putting one of the Red sets on my Chuck Lee, and I will try bringing those up to G and A, as this is the banjo I bring out to group settings.

I'll continue to provide updates when needed.

But so far, I have to say I love them.  If a set can last 6 months, and I don't have breakage issues when replacing, then I am more than happy to continue using these strings.

Lastly, the deep red color looks great on a dark stained banjo.  My Brooks has a dark walnut neck and a Silverspun rim.  The red strings blend right in.  I don't think I'd like the look on a really blonde instrument, but to each their own.

cheers!

SoundsGoodToMe - Posted - 04/09/2014:  20:25:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by SoundsGoodToMe

I'm trying out the red strings and I'm very happy with them so far.  They've been up to tension for about three weeks, mounted on Peghed tuning pegs and a Rickard no-knot tailpiece using angler's perfection loop knots, running over a regular ebony-capped bridge and bone nut. Stabilized quickly and have stood up to daily playing with no broken strings.

Compared to the white set with the wound fourth string, the overall sound is a bit brighter.  The red unwound fourth's timbre is much more consistent with the sound of the higher strings, and also considerably louder and more responsive than the wound fourth.  The rougher surface texture doesn't seem to affect slides and pull-offs much mechanically, but it does increase the string noise a bit.

---

Quoting myself to follow up.  The fifth string, first tuned up around the end of January and played every day since, just snapped at the knot while not being played.  Lasted roughly 70 days.  That said, I love the sound of the unwound red fourth more every time I hear it and I'd hate to see it discontinued.  

edavidt - Posted - 07/09/2014:  22:05:32

I have visited this topic several times in the last few months, but wanted to wait to post until my red series saw some playing time. 

After hearing a performer with a Bart Reiter Grand Concert play with red series strings, I replaced the classical nylguts on two of my banjos with red series strings. I did break the fifth string at the knot on the tail piece when I was putting the string on (this was the first string I put on),  but still had enough string left so I changed the knot, and did not have any problems afterward, or with any of the subsequent strings on either banjo. 

I love the sound. I love the feel.  It took a little adjustment to get used to the physical response. I re-tune both banjos constantly.  One is a Bart Reiter Grand Concert, with skin head, moon bridge, and no knot tailpiece.  The other is a short scale Mogi, also with a no knot tailpiece.  (I think it is a bit ironic that these no knot tailpieces require a knot for nylon strings!)  I play both banjos a lot, probably averaging 4 hours plus per week. I play for dances, on the street, at the farmer's market and so forth.  

Since I have had them on, a friend suggested that I try a fifth string capo (Reagan style), and unfortunately, it nicked the fifth string when I put it on.  The string broke a few days later.  

In summary - I am very, very pleased with these strings.  I will continue to use them, but will have to treat them gently, especially when putting them on.  I am reluctant to use a nail to shorten the fifth string, so I have been retuning between F and A, and the fifth string seems to do fine  with this amount of change (even better than the white nylguts).  At this point, I am not looking for any alternatives and I think I am getting the best sound I ever have.  This year at Fiddle Tunes in Port Townsend, I got a lot of unsolicited positive comments regarding the tones coming from the Grand Concert. 

Edited by - edavidt on 07/09/2014 22:07:02

Noah Cline - Posted - 07/10/2014:  10:44:36

When ordering a couple of the med. tension Nylgut  Classicals sets (with the wound 4th, which I prefer) from Elderly a couple of months ago, they sent me the sets with the red series fourth (though the regular set is still listed both on their website and in their catalog). Evidently, they are no longer carrying the regular sets, except for the 4th singles. I, being a purist with the original sets, decided not to put the red series 4th on a Buckbee that I had just restored (as I like the traditional look of the wound 4th), and switched it with a wound 4th off of another banjo. So, I thought that I would try it. I had that banjo tuned to around E or F, and it seemed that the red 4th wouldn't hold in tune, as every time I picked it up, I would have to re-tune it.

I ended up just ordering some of the single wound 4ths when I ordered a couple more sets. I have kept the red 4ths from those sets as I feel that it would be a waste to throw them away, though I don't use them, in chance that someone else might want them.  

Some on here may disagree with my thoughts regarding the wound 4ths, but I like the look, sound, and feel of them better than the red 4ths.

stevel - Posted - 07/10/2014:  11:00:30

i'm on month 10 with the full set of Reds now.  still going strong, with no problems what-so-ever.

i also have a set like Noah mentioned on my old Thompson and Odell with the Red 4th.  that set is also about 10 months old.

never had a tuning problem with that set either.

i have yet to try a full set of reds but with a wound 4th.  maybe someday....

YMMV

Explorer - Posted - 07/11/2014:  01:37:55

steve, since it's relevant to the idea of "no breakages while tuned all the way up," are you still tuning below the standard? What tunings are you using while getting perfect results?