Califiddler - Posted - 12/29/2012:  09:27:48

I got the North American Banjo Builders DVD's for Christmas and have been enjoying them a lot.  In the Bart Reiter interview, Craig asks Bart if the banjos that Bart sells on ebay are seconds or blems, and Bart confirms that they are.  Bart then says that all new banjos go to dealers.

I didn't buy my Reiter Standard from Bart on ebay, but I did buy it off craigslist from a guy who had bought it from Bart off ebay about a year earlier.  I can't see anything about the banjo that would make it a second or blem, no obvious flaws or anything like that.

Does anyone know what makes the banjos that Bart sells directly on ebay seconds or blems?

Thank you!

Montanarick - Posted - 12/29/2012:  14:41:52

quote:His standards are very high....his definition of a blem is probably much different than most. A banjo might not meet his standards for sending to a dealer but most likely will exceed our expectations in terms of quality.

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Originally posted by Califiddler

I got the North American Banjo Builders DVD's for Christmas and have been enjoying them a lot.  In the Bart Reiter interview, Craig asks Bart if the banjos that Bart sells on ebay are seconds or blems, and Bart confirms that they are.  Bart then says that all new banjos go to dealers.

I didn't buy my Reiter Standard from Bart on ebay, but I did buy it off craigslist from a guy who had bought it from Bart off ebay about a year earlier.  I can't see anything about the banjo that would make it a second or blem, no obvious flaws or anything like that.

Does anyone know what makes the banjos that Bart sells directly on ebay seconds or blems?

Thank you!

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Edited by - Montanarick on 12/29/2012 14:44:25

raharris - Posted - 12/29/2012:  15:19:50

I haven't a clue what Reiter counts as a blemish, but here is one example of how these things work --

In the '70s I worked as a packer in a tent factory. Really, it's not as glamorous as you might think ;-).  Much of the job consisted of one person each standing on opposite sides of what looked like hugely overgrown ping pong tables and performing an intricate dance involving folding this that way and that this way. Then we'd roll 'em up and stack them in piles for the boxing part of the ceremony.

Anyway, during the folding bit quality control folks wandered about the tables where various folding teams were working. At times they'd stop us to take a closer look at the zipper or that peg sleeve. Like as not they'd yank the tent off the table and take it elsewhere, either to the seconds shop, to repair, or to break down.

When I was new at this I'd ask "What's wrong with the tent, and the QC people would point out a missed stitch or a poorly aligned seam or whatnot. Now the QC people could see these things from across the table, but even when they pointed them out to me I either a. couldn't see the problem, or b. couldn't believe they'd yank a perfectly good tent for error I couldn't even make out.

Thing is, that tent manufacturer was well known -- they had their own brand name and they produced tents for major outlets like LL Bean and such. Our tents made it up Everest and K-2, that kind of thing.  So a missed stitch was treated as a big deal. Maybe that's why this tent maker was so highly esteemed.

And likely the same reasoning is part of what makes a Reiter banjo what it is. Other craft banjo makers may be more fashionable these days, but I have one 5-string left -- it's a Reiter and I wouldn't trade it in for love or money!

Edited by - raharris on 12/29/2012 15:20:46

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 12/29/2012:  15:28:41

quote:

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Originally posted by Califiddler

I got the North American Banjo Builders DVD's for Christmas and have been enjoying them a lot.  In the Bart Reiter interview, Craig asks Bart if the banjos that Bart sells on ebay are seconds or blems, and Bart confirms that they are.  Bart then says that all new banjos go to dealers.

I didn't buy my Reiter Standard from Bart on ebay, but I did buy it off craigslist from a guy who had bought it from Bart off ebay about a year earlier.  I can't see anything about the banjo that would make it a second or blem, no obvious flaws or anything like that.

Does anyone know what makes the banjos that Bart sells directly on ebay seconds or blems?

Thank you!

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 Why not just ask Bart?

banjohangout.org/my/banjobart

~Pete

Bill Rogers - Posted - 12/29/2012:  16:09:56

It may well be that he simply calls them that in order to sell them for less without undercutting his dealers.

sunburst - Posted - 12/29/2012:  19:00:32

Respectfully, I doubt that. I've known Bart for years, he will not undercut his dealers in any way.

Those of us who have worked building, and especially finishing instruments develop eyes that will see any flaw. We learn to see things that the majority of people miss even if you point it out to them. There will be someone out there, however, that will find a slight flaw, no matter what it is. Some people are attuned to wood finish and will spot anything amiss, others are attuned to metal finishing and plating, others inlay, etc. The builder must learn to see all of that because someone else will see it, so it can't be left as is. Bart has been building high quality banjos for many years. If he says it is a second or "blem", I believe it. It doesn't take much of a "blem" to make a banjo unacceptable for shipment to a dealer, so if you have one and can't find a flaw, don't be surprised.

ChuckS - Posted - 12/29/2012:  20:05:55

I build custom boat covers.  Usually EXPENSIVE ones.

I try to be much "pickier" than my customers. 

frailin - Posted - 12/30/2012:  04:35:19

Glad you're enjoying the Banjo Builders!

Know that Bart is very VERY picky/particular!  What he considers a blem or "second" would be invisible to the vast majority of the banjo playing population.  Also know that ANY of his banjos are exceptional.  They're already price so reasonably, I seriously doubt buying one from ebay or from a dealer will impact your banjo's resale value... in the rare event you'd want to let it go.  

Steve Donnelly - Posted - 12/30/2012:  14:22:24

I bought a Standard from Bart on ebay.

It had very low action since the scoop bottom was aligned with the head

rather than the fingerboard  surface.

I use a taller bridge which works out fine of course. 

jbalch - Posted - 01/04/2013:  04:27:05

If I'm not mistaken, Bart's ebay banjos are marked as "used" with no mention of them being "seconds" or blems."

Personally. I would not hesitate to buy one of his ebay banjos. I have every confidence that they are great banjos at amazing prices.

Redfoot - Posted - 01/04/2013:  10:15:55

Too bad Bart doesn't cater to lefties. But then his backlog is long enough, he can afford to ignore us..

Califiddler - Posted - 01/04/2013:  11:00:27

quote:

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Originally posted by jbalch

If I'm not mistaken, Bart's ebay banjos are marked as "used" with no mention of them being "seconds" or blems."

Personally. I would not hesitate to buy one of his ebay banjos. I have every confidence that they are great banjos at amazing prices.

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You are correct as to Bart's ads on ebay.  If you read my original post, I refer to Bart's interview in the North American Banjo Builders DVD series.

healingbalm - Posted - 01/04/2013:  12:33:03

From my experience 2nds or blems (when dealing with instruments) are very minor flaws in the finish which are often invisible if you dont know its there.. My first banjo was an Alvarez 2nd. The "blemish" was a slight discoloring in the finish in one spot the size of a pencil eraser on the resonator. It looked no different than the natural variation of the wood in other area's. Other than that the banjo was perfect. For about a third off the cost of a non "2nd" it was fine with me. I imagine there are many 2nd's out there which have passed through a few different owners and no one even knows its a 2nd anymore.