banjotech - Posted - 11/18/2012:  17:37:55

Hi, I just wanted those that might be in the market for a ToneRite to know...

from now until Friday, November 23rd, all new 3rd Generation models are on sale for 50% off. You must use the coupon code USA  to get the discount. Great Christmas present.

http://tonerite.com/ 

jbalch - Posted - 11/18/2012:  19:19:00

Thanks!  I just ordered one.

JB

banjotech - Posted - 11/18/2012:  19:28:22

Awesome, me too...

ellabrow - Posted - 11/19/2012:  16:40:08

Interesting, never heard of them but it sounds very neat. Anyone one here use them and like them or is it just snake oil?

Elliot

ellabrow - Posted - 11/19/2012:  16:42:14

And which one are you all ordering for your banjos? Dont see one banjo specific on the site.

Thanks,

Elliot

banjotech - Posted - 11/19/2012:  17:07:44

True, they don't have one for banjo.  But banjo players often play other instruments.

You can search many forums including this one to find threads on whether it's snake oil or not.  I've found the naysayers have usually never tested one.  And you can go to tonerite.com/ to see all the top names in musicians and builders that endorse it.

I too hesitated for a long time as to whether it really worked or not.  And the high price didn't help either.  I finally bought one about a month ago for my new fiddle.  After one day the sound improvement was quite significant.  After a week it was awesome.  I still can't believe it and like many, I'm not easily swayed.  With half off, I'll be getting ones for my mando and guitar. 

That's why I'm letting everyone know about the sale.  Only a few days left and we'll probably never see that again.  And with a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee what does one have to lose?

answerguru - Posted - 11/19/2012:  18:14:43

Well, just read FAQ "How does the ToneRight work".    Snake oil galore!

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"Over time, the tension naturally gets worse due to entropy".    Someone obviously doesn't know the definitions of entropy.

It also talks about energy being transferred to the instrument.  I'd like to know how the instrument stores that energy...again, this is bogus physics right here.  

I could go on, but really what's the point.   The text from the website sounds surprisingly like the audiophile websites (if you can't hear the difference when you place these special stones on your speakers, then you don't have the golden ear).

banjotech - Posted - 11/19/2012:  19:50:08

Again, one that's never tried it.  

He's relying on logic and his physics training and refuses to let his mind explore.  His education is moot, as he firmly believes there is an explanation for everything.

answerguru - Posted - 11/19/2012:  21:43:09

That's awesome - your response actually made me laugh out loud!   So let's have a rational discussion about our different views...

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There IS an explanation for everything that is related to physics....we're talking about mechanics, acoustics, and materials science.   Well understood subjects about easily measurable and modeled properties.

Here is what I do not understand; maybe you can help me.   The ToneRite website uses the following phrases:

"The ToneRight uses a specific set of frequencies that we have found to be successful in acoustic instruments"

"These 3rd generation models....represent the newest and most advanced ToneRite yet"

"By using proper advanced mechanical engineering, the ToneRite feet have been designed for maximum efficiency"

"This update allows for much finer control over intensity and harmonic content"

"Our research and development is based on two questions..."

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Wow, that sounds pretty technical!  All of these things sound quite scientific and educated.    You've ridiculed my science background, but ToneRite uses scientific jargon.  All you need to do is show me the science that makes this device as wonderful as you proclaim.

If the sound is actually different and improved, then you can easily record and measure it and just show me the difference  (if you're technical, you would show me an FFT plot, probably produced with Matlab).    You don't have to reveal any "trade secrets", you just have to show me a before and after graph showing the improvement or change in sound. 

If this device works, then this is an absolutely dead simple task.

If this device does not work, then excuses will likely be made about how the effect cannot be quantified.

Please, enlighten me.

banjotech - Posted - 11/20/2012:  08:24:49

Laughing is sometimes a result of embarrassment.

I've never used any ToneRite jargon as you stated.   I simply stated that I was an unbeliever, like you.  I didn't insult your education or training, just you. 

If you Google "what are things science can't explain" you will get tons of information.  I'm in a debate with someone that I can never win. 

I am correct by saying you have never tried it. 

Have a great Thanksgiving...

Edited by - banjotech on 11/20/2012 08:34:24

Alex Z - Posted - 11/20/2012:  09:48:20

I've used the ToneRite on four guitars, and it has made a positive difference on each.  Overall, the instruments developed a quicker response (not as "tight"), the bass notes had a more open sound with more tone (rather than just pitch), and the high notes were a little smoother, not quite as "steely."

No doubt the instruments would eventually get to the same point over time, being played.  But for me the ToneRite got them there much faster, given the relatively short time that I play a guitar during a week.  For example, if I play a half hour a day, then 100 hours on the Tone Rite would be the equivalent of 200 days, or almost 7 months.  That's the value of the ToneRite to me.

I've never tried a ToneRite on a banjo.  Guitars have the top wood, glue between top and sides, glued stiff braces, etc. -- all affected by the amount of playing time as well as by the aging of the wood.

Some noted guitar makers are using the ToneRite on new instruments.

There are things that the ear can hear, that current science has great difficulty in trying to measure -- for example, tap tones on a banjo head.  

Alex Z - Posted - 11/20/2012:  09:54:17

I should add that I don't think there is anything mystical about the ToneRite.  It is simply 60Hz vibration, and you're paying for the convenience of having it all wired up, with a designed attachment to place on the strings, and an intensity control.  Probably could do the same with an aquarium pump, extension cord, variable resistor, and some electrical tape.

I bought mine during a previous half price sale, and it has been well worth it.

FRAILER57 - Posted - 11/20/2012:  10:25:03

It can wake up an instrument that hasn't been played for a while. Itried one on my Martin that had been in the closet for a year or so. put new strings on, but it sounded really tight.Borrowed my cousin Ray's tone rite and ran it for a week,like he told me, and WOW. It started singing and booming just like the good ole days when i played everyday. You can't go wrong with one. it won't make a bad instrument better, but it will brighten a good one alot.

jbalch - Posted - 11/20/2012:  11:49:16

I've used an aquarium pump to "wake-up" banjos before. Just set the little rubber feet on the bridge and let it run....

I ordered the ToneRite guitar model because I think the intensity control and customized string contacts will be worthwhile. My guitars don't get enough play - so a little exercise can't hurt.

These things sell on ebaY "used" for around $100.  The way I see it, there is not much risk in buying a brand  new one for less than that  with free shipping.  If you don't like it  .... sell on ebaY to get at least most of your money back.

Helix - Posted - 11/21/2012:  04:21:43

Come on, just use a scope and show us a picture, simple.

Scruggs used to wake them back up by setting them in front of speakers. So vibratin feet is a cool idea, simple, repeatable.

Tom Scholtz of the Band Boston worked at Polaroid, he used to input his guitar signal, get a sine wave, take a polaroid, then write down the settings on the back of the photo and file it away, what could be simpler.

Why aren't they $50 all the time?

I have a different path, just play more.

jbalch - Posted - 11/21/2012:  05:39:32

quote:

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Originally posted by Helix

...



I have a different path, just play more.

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 You got that "rite".

Edited by - jbalch on 11/21/2012 05:39:55

gunshydog - Posted - 11/21/2012:  08:23:24

About once a week, I produce special magic chicken bones (from Kentucky)...

Friday, I'll have some magic (and lucky) turkey bones for half price...

You hang them from the neck of your banjo and it infuses the wooden parts with smokey goodness and coats the strings to make them more receptive to the proper notes!!!

Send me a check.

Alex Z - Posted - 11/21/2012:  12:29:34

Is anyone denying that a guitar's sound changes over time as it is played?

I agree that the ToneRite advertising is "over the top" so to speak.     It's pointless -- but fun -- to debate whether the advertising makes sense.  The underlying issue is whether the device works.   The bumble bee flies, whether anyone can "prove" how or not.

From those who have used it, the reports are that it works -- the vibrations simulate playing time, and the change in the guitar's tone is for the better.  Doesn't turn your Harmony Sovereign into a Collings Brazilian varnish dreadnought, but puts a lot more hours on that Collings a lot faster than you might be able to play on your own.  If you're playing several hours a day, probably don't need a ToneRite.

DArcySimpson - Posted - 11/21/2012:  13:04:21

I've followed the debate on umgf for years. It seems that the majority ultimately agree that it works and are happy with the results. I was skeptical, so bought an $18 aquarium pump years ago and I've been happy with the results on a number of guitars.

ObsidianSpike - Posted - 11/22/2012:  08:50:56

If it's magic, just say it's magic... Magic's pretty cool yo. I'd buy some magic banjo stuff.

If it's science, then show us the science... Science is alright. Shows us how them magnets work and whatnot.

But you can't mix the two... cuz you put a little magic here and the scientists want a serious answer... and you put a little science there and the New Agers and the hippies can't really feel the magic anymore... and personally I just get bored.

I'm gonna buy an aquarium pump for Black Friday and get to workin'.

Edited by - ObsidianSpike on 11/22/2012 08:51:48

jmoathout - Posted - 11/23/2012:  08:51:19

I had a discussion today with the Tonerite CEO on application to banjos, and have ordered one to try.  Note there is a 30-day no-questions-asked guarantee.  I believe the 50% sale ends today.  Just speculating:  Let's assume for argument that the device works.  Would it not be most noticeable after a disassembly and head change?

jbalch - Posted - 11/23/2012:  09:20:05

quote:

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Originally posted by jmoathout

I had a discussion today with the Tonerite CEO on application to banjos, and have ordered one to try.  Note there is a 30-day no-questions-asked guarantee.  I believe the 50% sale ends today.  Just speculating:  Let's assume for argument that the device works.  Would it not be most noticeable after a disassembly and head change?

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Re: banjos - For several years, I have used an aquarium pump on my banjos to approximate the same effect. The ToneRite should be more effective (than a pump) due to a more sophisticated harmonic content, better contact with the instrument, and variable intensity.

I found the aquarium pump to be most useful and to have a noticeable impact on my heavy tone ring bluegrass banjos - especially during the break-in period when they were still opening up insufficiently played.. I have not tried it on my Reiter open-backs - mainly because  they are lighter and more responsive to begin with - and they generally get played a lot more.

During the first year or so after purchasing my Williams Kenny Ingram model, it would definitely lose a good bit of responsiveness if left unplayed for a several days. I could wake it up with several hours of hard picking.  But when I did not have time to do that, I used the pump to do the same.  I would sometimes leaving it on the strings and bridge for days at a time. After such a treatment, the banjo would definitely be more open, responsive, and lively. As the banjo matured, and when it is frequently played, the process is unnecessary (and probably not effective). But especially when my banjo was new, or not played (enough), I am convinced the pump helped.

I ordered a ToneRite for my guitars precisely because I don't play them regularly. If it works to help keep them feeling and sounding "played-in" it will be worth the cost to me.

I think your idea of using the ToneRite after a set-up change makes sense. It does sometimes take a while for new parts to mate together and sound their best. If it works as advertised, the device should help "play-in" the new parts and reduce the time it takes to achieve a mature sound.

Please let me know what you think ...

Edited by - jbalch on 11/23/2012 09:26:15

KM Instruments - Posted - 11/24/2012:  05:18:56

quote:

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Originally posted by banjotech

Hi, I just wanted those that might be in the market for a ToneRite to know...

from now until Friday, November 23rd, all new 3rd Generation models are on sale for 50% off. You must use the coupon code USA  to get the discount. Great Christmas present.

http://tonerite.com/ 

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Damn! Just missed out on this.The guitar one we use in the shop does a great job and was planning to get a mandolin one.

Kieran

moloneymusic.com

10cevol - Posted - 11/24/2012:  06:19:17

As of this morning, the "USA" code is still good for 50% off.

KM Instruments - Posted - 11/25/2012:  04:19:11

quote:

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Originally posted by 10cevol

As of this morning, the "USA" code is still good for 50% off.

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That worked for me just now,thanks!

Kieran

jmoathout - Posted - 12/07/2012:  14:26:50

As mentioned 11/23, I ordered the ToneRite to try on an openback.  I found the Guitar model they sent fit just fine on a 5-string Reiter Round Peak.  ToneRite thought I might have to loosen a string or take a string out of a bridge slot, but it slipped in fine.  It's designed for 6 strings with three "feet" to separate and "hold" the strings. 

I ran it over a range of intensities from 12/3 to 12/7.  On playing, personally I can't tell a difference.  Now my hearing is shot so it may not be a good test.  And, the Round Peak has a simple rolled brass ring, and not a lot of mass compared to a resonator.  I have returned it for a refund.  I had hoped I could hear a difference, since it is appealing and was on a deep sale.