captbanjo - Posted - 11/28/2012:  10:24:09

I agree with Matt. I also can't be sure from the video how adept he might be at changing from say, G to D to A minus a capo?

Wayne

banjered - Posted - 11/28/2012:  10:27:27

For example, have you ever heard a classically trained violinist try to play old time for the first time or two? It's hilarious!!! Banjered

Edited by - banjered on 11/28/2012 10:29:14

Matt Buckley - Posted - 11/28/2012:  11:49:56

quote:

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Originally posted by banjered

For example, have you ever heard a classically trained violinist try to play old time for the first time or two? It's hilarious!!! Banjered

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Yep.   It's funny, but also painful .

Cheers.

Matt

KnarfEK - Posted - 11/28/2012:  13:38:26

This all reminds me of my one time interest in playing flamenco guitar. Until you know the intricacies of Soleares vs. Bulerias vs. Alegrias, etc. don't even think of trying to join a flamenco jam. I stuck to playing Palmas from the sidelines and only after several lessons in how to clap properly did I even attempt THAT.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/29/2012:  23:24:14

While I was always perfectly happy to play Irish tunes in claw style I will also be the first to admit, it does not work for musicians who play in modern Irish Session style. The rhythm is very wrong for this new Irish style (started about the same time as the Chieftains).

I don't know if The Chieftains invented it but suspect it was a movement already going on in Ireland, and they were among the first, along with Planxty to record in the style. The break with older session styles is clean and startlingly clear cut.

Modern Irish players (not from Ireland, but playing in the Irish style) really don't like to try to play along with someone they find sounds "Tone Deaf" to the rhythm they usually use. When playing with real "Irish" style players I either dug out my flat pick or played guitar in an open tuning. Playing Irish tunes in Contradance style worked out fine on clawhammer banjo. Dance accompaniment contra style is actually on the back beat like most folk music, but unlike modern Irish session tunes.

Irish music is played with a 4/4 feel (main emphasis on 1 secondary on 3) while most clawing music is only written in 4 beats. It is played in 2 beats with the emphasis on the back beat - 1 2 1 2 etc. It is written in 4 for legibility. 2 beat measures are harder to read, even if they are technically more accurate.

Older players and dance bands tend to play the backbeat style but the session guys are not into playing for dances and tend to go for super fast tunes played super-duper fast. I have to admit it is fun to do, but I find it hard to listen to more than a few minutes of the music when I'm not playing (which is all the time since my wrists and flatpick handling have gone to the dogs because of my arthritis.

captbanjo - Posted - 11/30/2012:  05:11:11

Well stated Old Chuck of the B Wood! Your clarifications are concise and informative, I think.

I also agree about the session attention span; to me, the best sessions incorporate liberal Irish song singing mixed into the tune sets.

Wayne

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/30/2012:  09:07:23

I think if the Irish sessions in your local area are still into doing a goodly proportion of vocal tunes you are: A, very lucky and B, more likely to find clawhammer an accepted technique

Matt Buckley - Posted - 11/30/2012:  10:39:39

quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

I think if the Irish sessions in your local area are still into doing a goodly proportion of vocal tunes you are: A, very lucky and B, more likely to find clawhammer an accepted technique

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I agree.

And as to your earlier comments about speed, I don't find that super-speed is universally true for every Irish session.  I've been around serious Irish sessions of all stripes, including  very, very fine and high-profile players playing at lovely and reasonable speeds, and other sessions where folks couldn't seem to play at anything other than Mach V.   It's always interesting how some of the finest players are much more into playing at moderate speeds.

Cheers.

Matt

Edited by - Matt Buckley on 11/30/2012 10:40:15