timmib - Posted - 10/02/2012:  13:48:54

Greetings,

First time post.  Been out of the 'loop' for some years and am now able to buy a decent banjo.  My experience is from 40 years ago and thus is probably somewhat 'rusty' <s&g>.  Anyway, in the 60's I often had the opportunity to play a friends ODE long neck.  Twas a delight.  The touch was light, the sound sparkled.  It was an open back.  Not particularly adorned.  Don't know if I ever knew the model number.  At the time the price was out of my reach.  What would I be looking for today that might emulate what I remember as a remarkable instrument?

TIA for any feed back.

Be well,

Kim

asmcsgac - Posted - 10/02/2012:  13:58:25

What style of music are you planning to play?

Westvon - Posted - 10/02/2012:  13:59:27

Not sure what that ODE you mentioned went for in those days, a lot less than they go for today, of that I am certain.  You might want to look at some of the less expensive Bishline banjos.  I played a couple of them the other day at Banjo.com (Marietta, GA) and they were priced under $2,000.  If money is not an issue, take a look at Yates, or Huber as well.  Sullivan also makes some incredible banjos in Louisville.  What is your price range, BTW?

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/02/2012:  14:23:01

Those Ode long-necks, the ones with the aluminum shell, come on the market periodically.  You might want to wait for one.  I know of nothing comparable currently available.

Jellodepello - Posted - 10/02/2012:  14:57:41

Deering has a Nice longneck. It's called banjosaurus and only costs 65000 dollars!

Helix - Posted - 10/02/2012:  15:19:08

Chuck Ogsbury and his daughter Tanya and a great team of Masters still work in Boulder and are now called OME. They did and still do make some of the finest examples of American banjos. They make fine longnecks.



Ian McPherson bought the longneck with case for $179.95, in '68. The first run of 125 was all longnecks.



Since you've been gone, the last five years have seen a quantum leap forward in sound production and custom workmanship, innovation and intonation. You can definitely look for a used Ode or OME. There are other builders here who play and use longnecks daily. I use mine to play everything from Xmas to bluegrass.



Take a look and join the longneck user's group.



Welcome to the hangout



Longnecks rule ( ))===='=== ::}

Edited by - Helix on 10/02/2012 15:23:46

Antelope Jack #'s 003 & 004 All Bamboo longneck and rim			Helix Hurricane #001
Helix Mariner	Helix Hurricane #001 in Battle	Helix Monarch #003, Chestnut with Cherry longneck.

timmib - Posted - 10/02/2012:  22:48:03

Hello All!

Thanks for the replies and information.  I played mostly folk in a group setting using various styles I picked up along the way: claw hammer, frailing, two and three finger, whatever seemed to fit with the group and the song.  As for price, it appears from snooping around the last couple of days that I'll need to spend over $1,000 anyway and would want to keep it under $2,000.  Having said this, I still have to get some hands on experience with the names I don't know like Bishline, for instance.  I don't expect to spend $6500 though!

I'm not in a particular hurry but ... I'm getting itchy to just do some playing. 

I'll definately wander over the the long neck group!

Gosh, almost forgot ... are the Vega's still a good banjo or do I wait for an older model to show up in the classifieds?

Thanks again for the help.

Be well,

Kim

Edited by - timmib on 10/02/2012 22:55:03

dmiller - Posted - 10/02/2012:  22:53:52

This is for sale in the BHO classifieds.  

banjohangout.org/classified/31113

(edited to add - -  cheaper than a grand  - - and its an ODE!)  

Edited by - dmiller on 10/02/2012 23:07:09

timmib - Posted - 10/03/2012:  02:09:13

Hi!

I looked at that and haven't decided if I want a metal pot or not. Don't think I ever played one.

eagleisland - Posted - 10/03/2012:  06:14:09

Gosh, almost forgot ... are the Vega's still a good banjo or do I wait for an older model to show up in the classifieds?

It depends entirely on the vintage of the instrument.  Vega is the Matt Stairs of the banjo world - you never know who will own it next.  Currently, the brand is owned by Deering, which gives you reasonable assurance of a high level of quality and attention to detail.  It has also been owned by Martin Guitars, and there were some okay banjos produced in that period, but there was also a fairly long period in which it was owned by a distribution company that slapped it onto poorly-made Asian junk.

If looking at Vega banjos, know what you're looking at.

timmib - Posted - 10/03/2012:  15:07:32

"It depends entirely on the vintage of the instrument. "

I'm only now getting up to speed on who owned whom ... And in the case of ODE, the new OME instruments seem to have some distinctive differences from the pre-Baldwin era.

Thanks for the feedback.

john bange - Posted - 10/03/2012:  15:29:45

the new Vega's are excellent products coming from Deering...the Asian made Vega's did not offer a long neck.  I love my Vega banjos and they are not even the tub-a-phone model.  I almost bought the Baldwin/Ode that is on the BHO, failing only because he would not take paypal.  I think it is a good one needing only a case and a geared 5th peg which is easy to install.

The Bacon Folk Model that Intermountain Banjo in Salt Lake has for sale is the cleanest one I've seen and Leo is a good guy.  I have got 2 banjos from him and both transactions were good.

Now that you have found the long neck group..there is also a folkies group to look at

timmib - Posted - 10/03/2012:  15:44:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by john bange

Now that you have found the long neck group..there is also a folkies group to look at

---

Greetings,

I was wandering around the hangout and stumbled upon the Folkies group!  Probably at about the same time you posted!! <LOL>

Thanks for the comments about the Bacon and Baldwin-ODE, I'll take a second look.  Still just getting used to all the different names.

Be well

1935tb-11 - Posted - 10/03/2012:  16:58:35

here is a 60s..  i think its from the 60s,, baldwin long neck for 675.00

banjobuyer.com/banjo/31113

looks pretty nice,,

terry m

timmib - Posted - 10/03/2012:  17:30:31

hi terry m,

thanks for snooping. I'm still not sure I want to go with a metal pot/body. Hopefully I can find a place around here to get some hands-on.

thanks again

be well,

boulderfolkie - Posted - 10/03/2012:  18:23:20

Hi, Kim....I left you a note on the Long Neck thread and will continue here now that I have a better idea of what you're looking for. I collect ODE Long Neck models and can swear by them. I've played one or another since 1964 and have never had a problem with them. I also have an OME and an OME/Vega hybrid and both are superior banjos.
I would stay away from Christy, Bacon, Baldwin, and any banjos made by Baldwin or ODE after Baldwin took over (one of my friends worked for ODE and Baldwin and can tell you about the decline in quality)
OME will still make a very few long necks upon request but they're pricey. Deerings are also top of the line and also pricey. These days, as in days past, you get what you pay for. Having said that I heartily recommend waiting until an original BOULDER ODE comes up for sale on the Hangout or eBay. A few of the plain Jane versions have necks that were fairly thick liken the Vega Seeger models....some others had lower profile necks with truss rods and those are the ones I prefer....but it's up to you. There were a few conversions and customs with all manner of engraving, inlays, and carving and I haven't seen a dud in the whole lot yet....
There are those of us who swear by the aluminum rim ODEs and those who prefer the rarer wood rims. I prefer ODE necks on Vega Tubaphone pots but that's just because I play a softer kind of folk than most.
All that said, I think $1,000-$1,500 should buy you a very decent playing and sounding banjo like the one you remember.
Best of luck,
Oldfolkie

1935tb-11 - Posted - 10/03/2012:  18:44:10

here is a place down near the coast off of 95 that has quite a few banjos

 acousticmusic.org/Banjos-p-1-c-13.html

terry m

timmib - Posted - 10/04/2012:  07:26:20

Thanks all.

When I have time later today I'll do some more research on Vega and find a place close by which has OME and/or Vega on hand, maybe even a metal body one. I'm curious about the Vega SS-5's for sale. Still, I'm inclined to watch the ads for a month or so for a pre-Baldwin ODE. Got the ol' Kay out last night. Still as stiff as ever. But, it was fun!

Thanks again to all.

Be well,

Kim

john bange - Posted - 10/04/2012:  17:31:38

Hi, Kim,

This is a good time to be looking for a long neck banjo.  While I have wanted an Ode "harpoon" peg head long neck for many years, I have owned a Baldwin/Ode and I did not find the quality to be lacking.  The one on the BHO classified is an early Arkansas built banjo and is priced fairly.  Later Baldwin Banjos have the truss rod adjustment in the heel which requires a special tool to adjust and can be striped.  The pot is a Colorado product and is the same as earlier Muse and Ode pots.  It has the brass tone ring also making it a loud and bright sounding banjo.  The Bacon Folk model I mentioned in an earlier post is very nice, probably not as loud(no tone ring) and lacking an adjustable truss rod but at a good price.  I have owned a couple of Vega Folklore long necks and did a review on the last one on the hangout...the Baldwin/Ode also.  the one the Folk Store has for sale looks good.  Dan Pennington has a very nice long neck for sale using a Gold Tone OT800 neck and one of his handmade pots.  I have had one of his banjos and they are well put together.  Helix makes a fine banjo, I'm told.  Gold Tone has many admirers here in the hangout also. 

If I could have any banjo, I would buy a Vega long neck from Deering.  Having said that, I have to say that I am very happy with my non tubaphone Vegas

boulderfolkie - Posted - 10/05/2012:  23:02:47

Hi again, Kim..I just wanted to clarify a bit. I should have begun my last post by saying "price is what you pay but value is what you get". I didn't mean to disparage any particular make of banjo...just to point out there there were different grades produced and for good reason. For example there was the top of the line Vega Excel, the Pete Seeger, and the Folklore. All three products from a well-respected company and produced to take advantage of the "folk boom". BUT.....The Excel had a few nice features that the other two didn't have and you paid the extra bucks to get one. If you were a poor college student, you probably had to settle for the cheaper Folklore until you could trade up. Same applied to Gibson, Christy, ODE, and other companies; different grades for different abilities and pocketbooks.
This IS definitely a great time to buy a longneck and I wish you the best of luck....but try to buy the best model you can within your budget!

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/06/2012:  08:35:39

Vintage VEGA long necks show up for sale (EBay, etc) fairly commonly. The Pete Seegers go for around $3000. The less expensive models like Wonder and Ranger are much lower, around $1000 in general.

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/06/2012:  09:36:55

Elderly Instruments has half a dozen Gibson and VEGA long necks from the 1960s, ranging from $1000 to $1250.

john bange - Posted - 10/06/2012:  12:05:57

The $1200 Folklore that Elderly has is
about the nicest one I've seen in a while

john bange - Posted - 10/06/2012:  12:06:58

The $1200 Folklore that Elderly has is
about the nicest one I've seen in a while

Helix - Posted - 10/07/2012:  16:24:25

I was looking at Mr. Bange's longnecks. Remember Ode went away from those orginal aluminum pots, back to wood, there's a reason, sound, music..

I know bracket band banjos have their friends, but for my comparisons with Fred Starner's Vega, the bracket band is like having a metal rim with a wooden liner, Seemed like a good idea at the time.

Some of us feel that a longneck should pull like a tractor in E, I pulled a couple of stumps with mine, but this is about you and your personal quest.

I would suggest you play some wooden longnecks after you get your hands on an aluminum archtop.

The gibson longnecks were all for show, I've seen 2 that needed to have the heels reset. They did not play well after that.

Deering maintains the Vega quality, they may not be as adventurous these days.

timmib - Posted - 10/08/2012:  01:27:27

Greetings,

I have been snooping in my memory .. ... seems to me that some folk played Gibson's in the early 1960's. I'm thinking that what I probably saw and heard were RB-170's or 175's. Didn't find any reviews here on the 175. Any experience with this? Elderly has one in need of work
elderly.com/vintage/items/60U-2474.htm which seems a bit pricey.

I'm thinking I'll probably work on my ol' Kay to improve the action while I watch the 'for sales'. It will give me some experience with current bridges, strings, etc and general setup techniques. I have to say history of the brands from say 1954 thru 1965 is fascinating reading and consuming more time than I'd expect! ... which is rather narrowing my thoughts on first time longneck to Vega or Gibson from that period until the ODE shows up. LOL! Too, I'm fascinated by eventually piecing together an optimal setup.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I am watching Elderly as well as BHO & other sites. And, trying to be patient!

Be well,

Kim

john bange - Posted - 10/08/2012:  07:50:28

that's a nice Vega Folklore the Folk store is selling on the BHO... a good set of photos and a good look at the back of the neck and at the bridge.  Watch out for a long neck with a low bridge on it unless you are good at adjusting the neck set angle

timmib - Posted - 10/08/2012:  10:16:23

Hello John,

I keep coming back to this one! I've been doing some snooping to see what questions I need ask. The only one I've got so far is how easy is it to adjust the neck as I like the strings fairly close to the frets. That was the great thing about that long neck ODE I played.

john bange - Posted - 10/08/2012:  10:21:49

Opinions seen to vary a lot on the Gibsons.  I have always toyed with the idea of refurbishing one but have not so far.  Elderly, Buffalo Brothers and Intermountain Banjos have had some RB175's for a long time and I'll bet they would be flexible with their out the door price.  The 2, I have seen up close both had a lot of finish checking and non functioning planetary tuners.  What little I could hear from them was no louder or brighter than the Bacon I tried out.  The RB175 has a tone ring but was kind of dull.  The Bacon was similar to my non- tone- ring Vegas.  The RB180 is rarer than hens teeth but is said to be a better performer.  Having said this, I am still drawn to the folk era mojo of the Gibsons and would most likely jump if the timing was right. Good luck, waiting for an original Ode.  They come around once in a while.  I've been waiting for one but my experiences with my Baldwin/Ode told me that they are not what I am looking for..  I sold my Baldwin only because I don't like an arch top head and low bridge.  It doesn't work too well with my nylon strings.  It was a great banjo, just really heavy.

I would also recommend that you focus on one with a hard shell case.  The Gibson's seen to all have an fax alligator soft shell...(a few exception).  With freight, a case could be around 160$...just some idle thoughts from a retired gentleman's unoccupied mind...

john bange - Posted - 10/08/2012:  10:30:42

My Baldwin/Ode had very low action with the steel strings that came on it.  The neck was arrow straight and with the multiple layers in their construction, I would not expect that to ever change.  They have a reputation of being built like a tank.

Low action just doesn't work for me so I sold it.  It was the prettiest neck I had ever saw.  The one on the BHO has all the original, highly sought after parts still on it...tail piece, Ode pegs, closed end 5/16 nuts...case is only fit for transportation to your house and a new on would need to be obtained...Elderly has them

timmib - Posted - 10/09/2012:  04:34:52

Well, I found one!!! About to the end of this page. Purportedly a 63 model 21 ln. No details. And, I've got to get 'off the air' for a while.

rumbleseatmusicsouthwest.com/A...page.html

john bange - Posted - 10/09/2012:  06:44:59

"Harpoon peg head"... exactly what I thought I wanted all these years,,,looks good...but I don't know about the price the price...surely, the 1 and the 2 are in each other's place

Edited by - john bange on 10/09/2012 06:49:25

mainejohn - Posted - 10/09/2012:  08:07:33

Lots of longneck aficianados chiming in so thought I'd add my 2 cents. I have a couple of vintage 20's Vega Tub-A-Phone longnecks (converted from tenors) and they are hard to beat, but if I were looking for a reasonably priced high quality vintage longneck  ($600-$1200) I would look first at a pre-Baldwin, Boulder-made Ode. Even with the aluminum pot, the tone is wonderful, as is the overall quality of workmanship.

Edited by - mainejohn on 10/09/2012 08:09:29

timmib - Posted - 10/09/2012:  08:51:43

I'm a bit hung up on the price and the aluminum pot. If I were going to spend in the area of $2,000, I'd really have to look at the alternatives. I really don't remember the aluminum pot on the one I played but the date is dead on, and wood pots did not come along for a couple of years. In one thread I read that Tommy Makem played an ODE. Wasn't much impressed with the sound sample supplied, but I'll dredge up a couple of albums for a listen. So, John B if'n you want to take a shot at it, be my guest. I'm going to pass.



Be Well,

john bange - Posted - 10/09/2012:  09:30:01

I'm set with my Vegas...that price is out of whack also but it sure is cool.  The pot on it is the same pot that is on the Baldwin/Ode on the hangout.  There were some you tube's of Ode/s a while back...think I'll go look for them

youtube.com/watch?v=JAneer2kmF0 

Edited by - john bange on 10/09/2012 09:33:11

timmib - Posted - 10/09/2012:  10:58:11

John,

That's a better sound sample that I'd heard, and more like I remember. Thanks for sharing.

Be well,

Kim

timmib - Posted - 10/09/2012:  13:53:19

Hum ... around the barn in the wrong direction time ... I talked to a fella this afternoon who has an ODE with a s/n of 683. I'm guessing it's 1962-ish. Anyone have any thoughts?

Helix - Posted - 10/09/2012:  17:07:49

Any ODE would impress me, he WAS the innovator. Bobby Anderson has since moved to the Carolinas, but I heard him play an entire bluegrass concert on a Longneck Ode with the aluminum shell, no resonator, it was in an acoustic venue without a PA.............

I was looking for a Gibson myself in 2005, but my wife was kind enough to suggest a new Gold Tone OB250 longneck with resonator, and that's what I bought originally. I played in a band with it, I jammed with it weekly for 9 months. It wouldn't punch through a clinic of guitars (7 or more at a jam = clinic.) So that led me to changeout the rim to a prototype of my own design.

It took them five weeks to catch me playing bluegrass without a rez.

My point here is that Vega, Gold Tone, Gibsons all have a 3-ply laminated rim, thus the advancement that the original Odes were able to demonstrate, just blew people away, that sound still works for the memory. My point in an earlier post was aluminum does fine, and many people enjoy them, they never vintage, and I find them a little colder and sharp.

All of the performers from those traveling groups enjoy some level of support from Vega, Deering. OME is fantastic, it's just a people thng to me. ODE never used the bracket band design. I would strongly suggest you research the bracket band and stay away from it, it's limited. They all use Pa's to make anything sound better. The exception here, is a LEVAN.

Send me your Kay, I'll put a bamboo longneck on there for $275 while you are waiting. Ask Mike Gregory, he carved his OWN longneck for a Helix.,

The bluegrass guys are suspicious of the Urban Legend of the Longneck, whereas a simple G-fingering key of E is right in front of them.

I like the era ODEs you are looking at, some had a more narrow nut. Look for the right width for your hand. Gold Tone is 1-3/16" Everybody's going to 1-1/4"

Ian McPherson's Ode is black with spherical shoes, not a metal rim. The snowflake inlays are large and difficult. Cool.