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PTPBanjo - Posted - 08/11/2012: 19:39:55
I have an Ibinez Artist Banjo that I would like to determine a value for. It was my brother's, who passed away in 1983. It was purchased new in the late 70's and is in mint-mint-mint condition. Not a scratch or pit anywhere - wood gleaming - chrome sparkling. The remo drum-type head has almost no trace of ever being played. He was disabled and the banjo has been in one location - my parents non-smoking home for it's entire existence stored in the original 4 buckle hard case. It is an absolutely beautiful instrument. I have no idea how much it is currently worth. We think he paid about $850 for it when it was new with the case. I will be taking it to Bill's Music Center in Catonsville, Maryland later this month to have them appraise the value, but thought I should learn what I can before I do that. I cannot find any markings on it, other than the brand name and the word "Artist" on the bottom of the neck. Any guidance or direction that will assist me in determining it's value would be extremely appreciated.
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tdennis - Posted - 08/11/2012: 19:44:39
Go to ebay, "completed listings" to get a good, realistic idea of the market. ( I would ignore any "Buy it Now" asking prices, & especially any music store appraisals).
banjo-oz - Posted - 08/11/2012: 20:52:24
I bought my Ibanez Artist (gold Plated) in the very early eighties for $860 OZ dollars. If it is similar to mine with a little "Japanese made"
sticker behind the peg head that's good because it is a pre litigation model. After that they were made in Korea and they are not very good. In Australia they can fetch between $800 - $2000 dollars.
I feel they are a much underated banjo but the market has the final say. Also they appear on the classifieds on banjo hang out but American prices don't seem to hold up as well. Its all very well saying the USA or British or Aussie made is better but just look at the car market the Japanese surely make the best engineered cars nowadays.
brunomathilda - Posted - 08/11/2012: 21:06:11
3 Artist went through the Hangout recently,the price ranged from $750,850,900 to $1000 one was up to $1100,recently one sold on Ebay for $800,I payd $550 for mine 6 months ago,I have seen them about on Craigslist from $350 to $ 700,the price on that banjo is all over the place,I would say $800 is about the right price at the moment and since quite a few came out at the same time,if you want to sell it fast I think 750,that is what I have observed in the past 6 months.
beegee - Posted - 08/12/2012: 05:14:53
I think $700-800 is a reasonable expectation.
jmmcdona - Posted - 08/14/2012: 08:15:42
I've owned two Ibanez Artist banjos and have monitored their prices for over 5 years. I also think they are HIGHLY underrated. However, I think the price you should ask is dependent on the model of Artist banjo that you have. If it is prelitigation it could be a 590, 591, 592 or 593 model. You can get a quick idea by going to ibanezwiki.com/display/CATALOG...jos and just looking at the photos to match your inlay design. A 590 fetches a lot lower price than a 593 if the seller notes this and provides photos. I was able to pick up a 592 for a 590 price because the seller set his price compared to the generic term "Ibanez Artist" banjo. I personally think $750 is high for a 590 or 591, but you still might get it. However, I know it is low for a 593 and you will be leaving money on the table.
Post some photos of the neck, peghead, pot and resonator and someone will identify the model for you. The pre-litigation Artists set up correctly play as well as any banjo I have played at twice the price.
John
banjo-oz - Posted - 08/15/2012: 07:52:06
quote:
Originally posted by jmmcdona
I've owned two Ibanez Artist banjos and have monitored their prices for over 5 years. I also think they are HIGHLY underrated. However, I think the price you should ask is dependent on the model of Artist banjo that you have. If it is prelitigation it could be a 590, 591, 592 or 593 model. You can get a quick idea by going to ibanezwiki.com/display/CATALOG...jos and just looking at the photos to match your inlay design. A 590 fetches a lot lower price than a 593 if the seller notes this and provides photos. I was able to pick up a 592 for a 590 price because the seller set his price compared to the generic term "Ibanez Artist" banjo. I personally think $750 is high for a 590 or 591, but you still might get it. However, I know it is low for a 593 and you will be leaving money on the table.
Post some photos of the neck, peghead, pot and resonator and someone will identify the model for you. The pre-litigation Artists set up correctly play as well as any banjo I have played at twice the price.
John
At last I find some one who agrees with me about the pre litigation artists being underated. I have a pre-lit 592G artist and opened it up by using a Fults tailpiece (that had the most effect on it) and I run a clear head on it as well.
In my case over the years the gold plating had become tarnished and falling off so when my father passed away I used some of the little monies he left behind to have it re gold plated. I have just fitted it with a set of Apollo "D" tuners and they are super smooth and well worth the money.
desert rose - Posted - 08/15/2012: 08:04:13
Les
ive noticed you have used the term a few times
you might be interested to know there was NO real litigation regarding banjos and ibanez and Gibson
Scott
jmmcdona - Posted - 08/15/2012: 10:02:22
quote:
Originally posted by desert rose
Les
ive noticed you have used the term a few times
you might be interested to know there was NO real litigation regarding banjos and ibanez and Gibson
Scott
I don't think we want to go into all the details of that here (or maybe the original poster does), but of course Scott is correct about the litigation. I used the term as accepted, if incorrect, vernacular in the context of this discussion. However, the original poster is probably not aware of the discussions / litigation procedures that occurred between some Japanese companies and Gibson, Fender, etc. in the 70's. So let me clarify those Ibanez Artist banjos I am referring to at least. For me, I refer to those Artist banjos produced by Ibanez up to their exit from the U.S. market in the early 1980's,but especially those in the early to mid 1970's. My experience lies most heavily with those produced before the cosmetic redesigns of 1978, although I have played a few from the very late 1970's and the workmanship was high there as well. Having watched the pricing market over the last 5 years, it seems to me that for many people that 1978 year is some sort of mental signpost in terms of the price. An Artist from the mid 70's seems to fetch a little more than one from the very late 70's...kind of the opposite of the Gibson RB 250. Also, again with no intention of hijacking the thread, I think the only Japanese "Masterclones" of the era that I have found that compare in terms of quality are the Goldstars and the Alvarez Whyte Eagle (an archtop model). I have also played one GTR that could hang in that crowd. I hope that clarifies the pre-litigation comment as I used it. I think Desert Rose makes a good point and I will be more careful using the term pre-litigation in the future.
John.
desert rose - Posted - 08/15/2012: 17:15:48
We have discussed this here more than once and its not a taboo thing. Both myself and Mile have first hand knowlege, myself having worked for the actual maker here in japan and mikwe having designed for Ibanez at the time.
Scott
stanger - Posted - 08/15/2012: 18:01:34
quote:
Originally posted by tdennis
Go to ebay, "completed listings" to get a good, realistic idea of the market. ( I would ignore any "Buy it Now" asking prices, & especially any music store appraisals).
Ebay isn't so realistic as all that. The place is more a bargain basement than anything, so it does have a little value as a determinater for the low end of the range.
The thing is, Ibanez banjos are a part of the group of brands I call New Vintage. The last one left the factory over 30 years ago, and they are still well regarded. Other New Vintage banjos are: Ode, California made Fender, Liberty, Great Lakes, Stom, Walstrom, Garippey, and others. All have fans, all will never be made again, and all are well made, good sounding and playing instruments. Their intrinsic worth is yet to be determined, but many are under-valued in terms of overall quality. Each has it's own interesting history, and all are potentially very collectible.
Ebay almost never sells these banjos at the top of the range. But all the prominent vintage dealers do, and their prices are, overall, higher than the best prices that are achieved on eBay.
regards,
stanger
stanger - Posted - 08/15/2012: 18:03:59
quote:
Originally posted by beegee
I think $700-800 is a reasonable expectation.
I agree. Some of the rare ones, especially those with the vine inlay, go for $1000 and over. Even a clean Artist can reach $1000 once in a while.
The good Japanese banjos are still generally undervalued, I think.
regards,
stanger
stanger - Posted - 08/15/2012: 18:12:43
quote:
Originally posted by desert rose
We have discussed this here more than once and its not a taboo thing. Both myself and Mile have first hand knowlege, myself having worked for the actual maker here in japan and mikwe having designed for Ibanez at the time.
Scott
Yup. A lawsuit was threatened, but it never went to court at all. Scott would know more than I, but as I recall, the settlement was reached with no damages incurred by either side.
If it had gone to court, Gibson would have lost. Ibanez had already made substantial cosmetic changes to all the instruments Gibson objected to before the threatened lawsuits ever began.
Norlin was smart enough to know when to back off. Henry, about 2 decades later, did the same thing with Paul Reed Smith guitars, and that one went to court. Henry got his butt kicked.
A Cease and Desist letter can scare a small company some of the time, but not always. Smith refused to be scared. The verdict cost Gibson a big hunk of profit margin for that year.
regards,
stanger
stanger - Posted - 08/15/2012: 18:14:05
quote:
Originally posted by stanger
quote:
Originally posted by desert rose
We have discussed this here more than once and its not a taboo thing. Both myself and Mile have first hand knowlege, myself having worked for the actual maker here in japan and mikwe having designed for Ibanez at the time.
Scott
Yup. A lawsuit was threatened, but it never went to court at all. Scott would know more than I, but as I recall, the settlement was reached with no damages incurred by either side.
If it had gone to court, Gibson would have lost. Ibanez had already made substantial cosmetic changes to all the instruments Gibson objected to before the threatened lawsuits ever began.
Norlin was smart enough to know when to back off. Henry, about 2 decades later, did the same thing with Paul Reed Smith guitars, and that one went to court. Henry got his butt kicked.
A Cease and Desist letter can scare a small company some of the time, but not always. Ibanez wasn't scared, and Smith refused to be scared. The PRS verdict cost Gibson a big hunk of profit margin for that year.
regards,
stanger
Charles in SC - Posted - 08/15/2012: 18:57:21
Maybe you could post some pictures that we could look at.
Charles in SC - Posted - 08/15/2012: 18:58:05
Maybe you could post some pictures that we could look at.
goldtopia - Posted - 08/17/2012: 09:13:15
The Ibanez Artist is the equivanent of a Gibson Mastertone. Gibson complained because whatever the Japanese do they copy it and make it better than the original. The same with their cars and motorcycles, etc. The Ibanez Artist ceased production for that reason.
Shimdog - Posted - 08/17/2012: 09:49:44
If you are going to Catonsville to get it appraised, I highly suggest you consider Appalachian Bluegrass Shoppe, which is on the same road just 1-2 blocks away. Bill's Music is better known for electric instruments and drums. Emory Knode at Appalachian Bluegrass has been in the business a long time and has a lot of integrity. If he isn't sure about something, he won't bs you.
dandylion61 - Posted - 08/17/2012: 10:09:47
I just let my Artist of nearly 40 yrs go, 2 mths ago for just shy of $700....
She's in a good home now...and will hopefully be played
Pete
Hotrodtruck - Posted - 08/17/2012: 14:34:09
I've only had my 591FB (Artist, Wreath inlay) for about 30 years, and it will be with me for another 30, the Good Lord willing.
Mike
Fishrrman - Posted - 08/17/2012: 15:52:21
Check out the pics posted above, particularly the 591FB model, which was a "clone" of the Gibson "wreath" pattern.
Only problem is, when Gibson made the RB-800 models in the 1970's, they didn't use the "correct" prewar inlay patterns. For example, on the first fret inlay, the "wreath" was incomplete, missing the "vertical" part of the inlay (which was inside the wreath itself).
So, when Ibanez "cloned" the banjos in Japan for their line, they copied the wreath pattern -exactly-, the "mistakes" of the 800 series and all!
Must have made the threat of a trademark/patent infringement case very - no wonder Ibanez decided to cease production, without even making it to court.
Even the tailpiece and 2-leg armrest are identical copies of what Gibson was putting on their banjos in the 1970's...
Edited by - Fishrrman on 08/17/2012 15:55:56
