Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  01:51:57

Hi Everyone,

Last week sometime I posted a new tune I've written called Elijah's Tune and asked whether it should be played faster.  Most people said yes (and a few said no).  Last night, with the guitar player from my band, I recorded a slightly faster version for comparison.  Let me know what you think.... the jury's out!

Cheers

Andy

Edited by - Andyincov on 06/21/2012 02:44:15

VIDEO: Elijah's Tune (faster version) (click to view)

VIDEO: Elijah's Tune (click to view)

beegee - Posted - 06/21/2012:  04:43:34

i couldn't tell much difference. I think if you're going to play it slowly, it needs more of a "lilt" or bounce to it and if you play it faster its needs to be really fluid and smooth. There seems to be a slight disconnect in the pattern just before the final tag lick at just before the 2nd part, like it's only 1/2 a roll before the tag lick.

Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  05:27:37

I agree - it's only marginally faster.  In the 'slower' version, I'm picking for about 58 seconds and in the 'faster' version about 51 seconds.  Not really sure how that works out as bpm.

I prefer it a bit faster so will work on the fluidity as you mention.  Thanks for the advice

Cheers

Andy

The KIDD - Posted - 06/21/2012:  05:52:01

Yeah Andy, when tunes are at this tempo, speed can get VERY supjective because its all about FEEEEL. Do you feel like I do?.. givin our age diff.. I doubt it..(older bones)...The instant I heard this , I thought of Alan Munde's " Santa Claus" and wanted to hear more bounce. Now , IMO, where deal with makin R tracks for students daily 16 BPM is a HUUUUGE diff  (first video 79 /second video 95)...I would want to hear more lilty bounce even at 95 and prolly at 105) BUT, thats me....Cool tune either way. I applaud your creative efforts!

KIDD

Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:01:02

Hi john. Thanks for clearing up the speed difference.

Now, if I can ask you a question: how does one achieve 'more bounce'? I hear this word a fair bit but I don't think I actually really know what it means. Does it refer to playing ahead of the beat slightly or synchopation, or something else?
Anyway, many thanks for the feedback--I really appreciate it.
Cheers
Andy

The KIDD - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:07:12

Alan Munde' will bounce you off this Planet with his playin..  Man, I studied that cat INTENSLY in the early 80s listenin to Banjo Sandwich and Banjo Kidd Rides Again. Molly Bloom is another great tune to cop. ..Yeah, I wouldnt "Try" to get more bounce.(Be like me TRYIN to talk like JoeMac..) It would come out "mechanical".. Just listening to players who pocess alot of it will do the trick..You'll find yourself "Bouncin" along  on passages more and more at speeds 95-115..Its gotta get IN ya.. Lots of listening will do that.. Its Magic!!!

Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:15:05

I spend about 6 hours a day listing to the country Gazette so hopefully a bit of that Munde magic will seep into my fingers through osmosis. 

I'll be meeting JoeMac for the first time in person on Monday.......I'll TRY and talk to him!

I know what you mean about trying to explain something musical to someone (with words).  A friend of mine wanted me to show him how to play open G blues on my National guitar.  Whenever it came to a chord change he missed it and asked 'how am I supposed to know when to change chords.  All I could offer was ' you just know' and he wasn't impressed so said just listen to Muddy Waters then - you'll figure it out.

Cheers

Andy

joemac - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:26:03

Bounce....there's a thing, being at one with the tune, riding the tune to such a degree that its all you that comes onto the stings with your feel, natural rythm.......many things, EMO, yeah EMO for sure............Listen to Jens, Bela, Shelton and Sammy. Learn how to feel the tune, get in the zone......................till monday.

joemac - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:32:45

The Kidd, king of melodic playing , go to his jukebox and pick anything you like, the way he sways through a piece with highs and lows is astounding, you could not have a better example of listening to all the things i mention above.

Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:35:58

Hahaha....you make it sound so easy Joe!

See you at the Bull on Monday.

ps- what's EMO?

Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:36:52

I have to admit I LOVE the Kidd's playing - I will revist the jukebox.

Cheers

joemac - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:39:02

EMOtion.................phew!!!

Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  06:42:19

ah-ha!

Bupahe - Posted - 06/21/2012:  11:23:02

Can't give you any technical reasons, don't know enough yet, but for what it's worth I liked the faster version, the sound seemed to be better.

Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  11:28:36

Thanks - that seems to be the general consensus. Welcome to the hangout!

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 06/21/2012:  12:04:56

Well, I said before that I like it slower and waht I meant was I liked your playing when it was slower, not that the tune shouldn't eventually be played faster. On this faster version, you are not making the chord transitions clean -  your LH has not reached the new chord in time for your RH which is already playing the strings. Just saying you gotta walk before you can run young fella!   But I applaud your determination and creativity, you'll get it, but don't ignore the basics - you have to have them down cold.

Laurence

Andyincov - Posted - 06/21/2012:  12:10:45

Haha-very good point and point taken! I agree, my technique isn't quite there on the faster one. You know what it's like for us banjo players 'must go faster!'
Cheers,
Andy

joemac - Posted - 06/22/2012:  00:53:09

well thats not strictly true, the banjo is an instrument unlike many others, it will make you look bad at any speed if you dont put the care into it . Playing at speed just makes bad playing sound worse. Bill Kieth said once that he was simply a musician that had chosen the banjo as his instrument and not a banjo player. So as a musician you need the love and attention that i was on about earlier, i have played for 30yrs and i am still not the complete article by any way. Remember, when you go out to entertain people then thats what you must do, they pay to come and hear musicianship, especially when you play in front of your peers.

Andyincov - Posted - 06/22/2012:  01:00:05

I agree completely Joe - I was joking about one (of the many) sterotypes that exist about banjo players in general.

Cheers

Andy

joemac - Posted - 06/22/2012:  06:32:20

Yeah i know mate, and I aint comming down on ya either bud. Like the Kidd i really admire your spirit and i dont want to see you hurt by the Bluegrass police that exists in this country. Most of the top guys keep away from many of the bluegrass do's due to the attitute that tends to come from some of the " low hour pilots " You just have to walk around the site to hear tunes with half the proper phrases missing or the tune simplified to make it achievable, do it right from the very first step you take and you cant fail..............i wish you well and if you ever need some help or direction, then just pop over to me, the kettle will be on, Joe