Mike Moss - Posted - 06/10/2012:  04:25:28

A modern Classic Banjo rag by one of today's best teachers and performers, Chris Sands.

VIDEO: Beat the System Rag - Chris Sands (click to view)

bd - Posted - 06/11/2012:  07:57:56

Nice one, Mike. Listening made me think it'd be great to hear a ragtime duet with banjo and guitar, but maybe the banjo would overpower the guitar volume-wise. At any rate the composer really captured the ragtime sound--not that I'm an expert on it or anything.

Mike Moss - Posted - 06/11/2012:  08:08:13

Banjo and guitar -- why not? For a nice snappy sound an archtop guitar would probably sound great... here's Bill Ball and Gordon Dando playing in 1967

Or a video of Tarrant Bailey Jnr (classic banjo) and Geoff Sisley (archtop guitar)... Tarrant Bailey Junior taught Chris Sands (the author of Beat the System Rag)

Chris has also composed other rags... here's a video of him playing one of his compositions:

bd - Posted - 06/11/2012:  08:33:32

Cool videos Mike--I've enjoyed that Bailey one before. But have seen/heard of any ragtime duets where the guitar and the banjo trade leads?

Mike Moss - Posted - 06/11/2012:  09:28:16

I haven't seen any where the guitar and banjo trade leads... that's probably because they are in two separate domains, with

- Classic banjo + 2nd banjo and/or piano backup ragtime, with the 1st banjo playing lead, which is the "original" recording format for rags,

and

- Solo fingerstyle guitar arrangements of piano rags in which the guitar incorporates both some lead and bass from the piano score, which is more of a late 20th century phenomenon

Since the guitar sort of "missed out" on the ragtime craze, they tend to follow late ragtime revival tastes (Joshua Rifkin style, soft and expressive ragtime) whereas ragtime banjo tends to be played in the early, brash, "loud n'proud" style, which makes them both very different animals altogether.

The only Classic banjoist I know of who consistently recorded with banjo + guitar is Tom Barriball, but I haven't got many ragtime recordings of his (he mainly played Morley and characteristic "banjo music").

bd - Posted - 06/11/2012:  09:55:21

That's about what I suspected. I've heard some "brash" ragtime from current players on the youtube (well one I can think of), but not much.

This fellow for one:

Nylon string ragtime guitar

BobTheGambler - Posted - 06/11/2012:  12:38:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Moss

Since the guitar sort of "missed out" on the ragtime craze, they tend to follow late ragtime revival tastes (Joshua Rifkin style, soft and expressive ragtime) whereas ragtime banjo tends to be played in the early, brash, "loud n'proud" style, which makes them both very different animals altogether.

 

---

I humbly submit my favorite ragtime guitarist, Craig Ventresco. He plays much more in the "loud n'proud" style and learned a lot of his tunes off of old recordings and sounds much better to my ear than the more genteel Rifkin-style players. Some of the rags I've heard him play sounded like he pulled them right off of a Vess Ossman Cylinder. A few examples:

Springtime Rag

with Meredith Axelrod:

Something Doing

and here's a great video of him in a group setting doing St. Louis Tickle with Bob Ault on a five string, Dennis Pash on a banjo-mandolin, and Meredith Axelrod playing second guitar.

St. Louis Tickle

Mike Moss - Posted - 06/11/2012:  12:46:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by BobTheGambler

 

I humbly submit my favorite ragtime guitarist, Craig Ventresco. He plays much more in the "loud n'proud" style and learned a lot of his tunes off of old recordings and sounds much better to my ear than the more genteel Rifkin-style players. Some of the rags I've heard him play sounded like he pulled them right off of a Vess Ossman Cylinder. A few examples:

Springtime Rag

with Meredith Axelrod:

Something Doing

and here's a great video of him in a group setting doing St. Louis Tickle with Bob Ault on a five string, Dennis Pash on a banjo-mandolin, and Meredith Axelrod playing second guitar.

St. Louis Tickle

 

---

YES! I've just found one of my new favourite musicians! Archtop guitar + hard picking... the results are amazing. Thanks for sharing.

bd - Posted - 06/11/2012:  13:47:57

Ventresco is really good! That's pretty much exactly what I was imagining. Oddly enough his picking style reminds me of Carl Perkins. Thanks, Bobthegambler.

BobTheGambler - Posted - 06/11/2012:  15:12:28

There's some great recordings of him out there, the easiest to find being the soundtrack to Terry Zwigoff's Crumb documentary. He has a really interesting hybrid picking technique too. This is my favorite video, its based around the Leecan and Cooksey "South Street Trio" 78. Meredith Axelrod plays some fantastic accompaniment too:

Cold Mornin' Shout

bd - Posted - 06/11/2012:  19:40:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by BobTheGambler

There's some great recordings of him out there, the easiest to find being the soundtrack to Terry Zwigoff's Crumb documentary. He has a really interesting hybrid picking technique too. This is my favorite video, its based around the Leecan and Cooksey "South Street Trio" 78. Meredith Axelrod plays some fantastic accompaniment too:

Cold Mornin' Shout

 

---

That was excellent--from both players. I remember the Crumb documentary & remember liking the music but not his name from the credits.

I don't know if you're familiar with Carl Perkin's playing but he used a similar hybrid style, that is, he flatpicked and picked notes with his ring finger and pinky. Musically different genres obviously but similar technique. 

thereallyniceman - Posted - 06/13/2012:  12:06:56

Not exactly banjo and guitar trading leads, but here is a great old film of Tarrant Bailey with Geoff Sisley on guitar.

TARRANT BAILEY AND GEOFF SISLEY

 Brash?...   just about sums it up!  :-)

Mike, try to perfect the sincere Tarrant Bailey smile for your video recordings :-))