f5loar - Posted - 06/24/2012:  13:04:08

Because all the banjo pickers/collectors that can afford one and want one already have one and don't need another one at this time.   Does that make sense?

meyk - Posted - 06/24/2012:  13:58:43

I can't believe I saw a Rooster and a dirt bike for sale.  Times change I wonder what price George would put on the rooster.

I buy George Gruhn's books and I read his columns because I don't believe people with his knowledge are going to be around a the time.

I can't say I would go with $70,000 for his banjo, but I wish I could afford it.  I posted vFor Sale: Rare beauty Bacon Pro #3, easy player Tenor I would love to get $50,000 for ;)  it should go to a collector  I have had a wonderful time with it.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 06/24/2012:  15:49:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aradobanjo



Hello,



$70,000 dollars for a piece of wood?



Why not all conversions receive the same price? Wood doesn't last forever. Metal does rust.  This may sound sweet but glues give out. Wood dry rots.









John

Aradobanjo

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Here is some things that are just wood and these prices make the banjo with metal sound like a bargain:

Stradivarius Violin Price

How does one set a price on a genuine Stradivarius instrument? With only 650 in existence today, these immaculate works of art are prized as much for their unique and supreme craftsmanship and sound as they are for their rarity in quantity.

Stradivarius instruments hold the top five prices paid for any musical instrument. The most expensive Stradivarius violins are the ones crafted during what is considered his golden period from 1700 to 1720. These violins are estimated to bid at the starting auction price of millions of dollars.

In 1998, Russian violinist Maxim Vengerov purchased the 1727 Kreutzer for nearly $1.6 million. He owns a total of four Stradivarius violins.

In 1990, the 1720 Red Mendelssohn was sold for $1.7 million. It was purchased by violinist Elizabeth Pitcairn's grandfather, who gave it to her on her 16th birthday.

In April of 2005, the 1699 Lady Tennant was auctioned at Christie's for $2,032,000. Sponsored by the Stradivari Society of Chicago, the Lady Tennant was loaned to violinist Yang Liu and in 2009 it was loaned to Yossif Ivanov.

In April of 2007, the 1729 Soloman ex-Lambert was sold at Christie's for $2.7 million to an anonymous bidder.

According to Christie's auction reports, Antonio Stradivari's 1707 Hammer violin was sold in May 2006 for $3,544,000, achieving a world record for any musical instrument sold at that time.

Most recently however, that record was broken when concert violinist Anne Akiko Meyers purchased the 1697 Molitor Stradivarius for a record $3.6 million. The Molitor was previously thought to have been owned by Napoleon Bonaparte.

A Stradivarius instrument is a financial and emotional investment that is only going to rise in value.

TB-4 Guy - Posted - 06/24/2012:  16:42:29

Here are two nice "pieces of wood" that I wouldn't mind owning. If you think prices are too high on pre-war banjos, you all should take a look at the prices on vintage Les Paul electric guitars. Here are two from George Gruhn's website.

Aradobanjo - Posted - 06/24/2012:  17:47:02

Hey Greylock,

Funny thing is that none of the items were germain to discussion. I did not see a violin modified to be a viola in your list. In the classifieds, an authentic 1927 Mastertone is on sale for $25,000. This is not a conversion. A letter of authentication accompanies this instrument from very good people. Yet, this one is in California and not next to a cadre of supporters. This is the second time this year it is being offered. This banjo is on eBay.

The second item is the the number of violins with the age of wood and their maker significantly smaller in number than Gibson Mastertones Banjos. Banjos that were mass produced fraught with mismatches and questionable work. This has been discussed multiple times in these banjo ringing halls.

This is laughable with the rush of support. How about someone say that this was Banjo virtuoso's personal favorite used in recording the top of the charts 20's, 30's, or 40's? How about "This sounds better than XXXXXX's banjo. Here is a recoding to compare."

This is a unique instrument as noted by the PB players. Why alter a good PB this way? Why not keep the original neck and have a 5 neck built by a very reputable maker. We have a oddity. The work is done. We are at 2012. How do we price it? Not much to compare with that is for sure. Is this on the same plain as a 14th thru 17th century violins? Well, $70,000 is much less than the violins offered. So, no. Now, on this site a $25,000 banjo fully authentic and verified is being offered.

Finally, this $70k banjo is part of a large batch of PB, TB and a select few RB banjos during the late 20's. Remember the 20's, 30's an early 40's was ragtime, jazz and blues. Blugrass wasn't until 1945 with Earl Scruggs. The switch to RB from PB and TB has been chronicaled. In fact, Gibson's website still shows 5 string instruments as their predominant style. What a change 100 years has made.

So, the last quote on the previous page asked why hasn't this moved? Probably the same reason why this RB is making its second offering. The eye candy of today maybe much more appealing than antiquity. Maybe the tech for today is making the difference in owning nostalgia.

Sincerely,

John

Aradobanjo

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 06/24/2012:  18:31:46

John,

I don't care if it goes for $25,000 or $100,000 because honestly I won't be buying at either cost. I think, as someone said, it is worth what you get for it and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My post was referring your comments about it being wood that would rot, metal that would rust, and glue that would give. I didn't really see the significance of those points relative to the cost of the instrument and I think the cost of the Stradivarius fiddles and the Les Pauls proved that.

The only benefit to me in this discussion is that if I win the lottery I won't have to bid against you on this.

So I will go get my ticket and know my odds are a bit better. But if I win,  I also have to get a Hatfield, a Chief,  a Neat, a Yates and a Huber. Ant then with that many good banjos I will have to learn to play better.

Ken

Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 06/24/2012 18:32:41

Aradobanjo - Posted - 06/24/2012:  19:22:43

Hey Ken,

I agree with you on the premise that neither one of us will be bidding on this. :-) I think you said it best, the lottery is the answer! LOL. See. We are in the nickel crowd section, the cheap seats if you will. The sad part is that is what states and local governments see as a solution also. What do you do with all those treasury dollars of excess these past 12 to 16 years? Recycle them in lotteries. Then again, I think the reason for these astronomical prices is because of the excess from the last 12 to 16 years. Expendable capital like this is many years away.

Sincerely,

John

Aradobanjo

Edited by - Aradobanjo on 06/24/2012 19:27:31

Aradobanjo - Posted - 06/24/2012:  19:37:40

Hey Guys an Gals,

If the housing, financial and manufacturing sectors have all experienced the crunch of devaluation, credit scores for banks have also taken a dip. Should we not see the correction here? I think this why I am seeing very nice instruments coming available. Capital is tough to hold. Too many hands want it to pay for big bills. Enjoy what you have. Hug your family closer. Keep picking those happy songs.

Sincerely,

John
Aradobanjo

RB3WREATH - Posted - 06/25/2012:  02:55:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aradobanjo



Hey Guys an Gals, If the housing, financial and manufacturing sectors have all experienced the crunch of devaluation, credit scores for banks have also taken a dip. Should we not see the correction here? I think this why I am seeing very nice instruments coming available. Capital is tough to hold. Too many hands want it to pay for big bills. Enjoy what you have. Hug your family closer. Keep picking those happy songs. Sincerely, John Aradobanjo

---

John there is something you are missing, you keep going back to the converted neck and now you are looking at a RB archtop not flathead for 25K. This has not sold due to the fact that this banjo should sell for around 18 K because it is an archtop and it is being sold by someone who has ripped many people off on banjo deals. FYI I know of multiple banjos bought over the past 6 months between 70 and 150K these are private deals. This banjo has a neck converted before there was a sensitivity to this choice. The converted neck has no added value it is the pot that has the value and I can say through this financial meltdown anyone who bought one of these from 2005 until now and sold it recently has seen an average return of 25%. It is simple If you don't think it is worth the price move on. I know many people who thought I was crazy to pay 7k for an original RB3 flathead in 1983 and over the years I kept telling these folks to buy one now if you want one, they will never be cheaper and this has held true for these high end examples.

Joe

Edited by - RB3WREATH on 06/25/2012 02:57:29

f5loar - Posted - 06/25/2012:  05:41:10

There are certain things that do hold value even through a recession.   And besides the recession is over or at least that's what I keep hearing on the news.  You got to compare apples to apples and an old ball bearing archtop ain't no apple to compare to this apple. 

BanjoLink - Posted - 06/25/2012:  15:32:41

Quote:  "Hey Greylock, Funny thing is that none of the items were germain to discussion. I did not see a violin modified to be a viola in your list. " 

John  -  funny, but you don't realize how "germain" Greylock's comparison to the Strads were.  No, none were modified to be a viola, but each and every one of them have had their necks replaced so that they would be playable for modern playing  -  sound familiar.  Yes, like a tenor or plectrum banjo, these violins could have still been played, but the original scale of the necks were just not suitable for more modern music.

davepicks5 - Posted - 06/25/2012:  17:36:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by BanjoLink

Quote:  "Hey Greylock, Funny thing is that none of the items were germain to discussion. I did not see a violin modified to be a viola in your list. " 

John  -  funny, but you don't realize how "germain" Greylock's comparison to the Strads were.  No, none were modified to be a viola, but each and every one of them have had their necks replaced so that they would be playable for modern playing  -  sound familiar.  Yes, like a tenor or plectrum banjo, these violins could have still been played, but the original scale of the necks were just not suitable for more modern music.

 

---

 John..... the curse of the "grafted scroll" altered the historical value of these instruments and the tonal qualities.

I have enjoyed reading this thread.......... healthy debate and sharing information is fun, that is what the BHO should always be about.

I surmise the 4 has not moved, not because of price, or alteration of the neck, but more to the point of chrome plating versus nickle plating. I believe if it were a 3 or a 75, it would never have reached the Gruhn publically  advertised list. They have a  waiting list for certain banjos, this one was not found acceptable by those which would have "seen it first".

Just my thoughts......

David

RB3WREATH - Posted - 06/26/2012:  03:53:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by davepicks5

quote:

---

Originally posted by BanjoLink

Quote:  "Hey Greylock, Funny thing is that none of the items were germain to discussion. I did not see a violin modified to be a viola in your list. " 

John  -  funny, but you don't realize how "germain" Greylock's comparison to the Strads were.  No, none were modified to be a viola, but each and every one of them have had their necks replaced so that they would be playable for modern playing  -  sound familiar.  Yes, like a tenor or plectrum banjo, these violins could have still been played, but the original scale of the necks were just not suitable for more modern music.

 

---

 John..... the curse of the "grafted scroll" altered the historical value of these instruments and the tonal qualities.

I have enjoyed reading this thread.......... healthy debate and sharing information is fun, that is what the BHO should always be about.

I surmise the 4 has not moved, not because of price, or alteration of the neck, but more to the point of chrome plating versus nickle plating. I believe if it were a 3 or a 75, it would never have reached the Gruhn publically  advertised list. They have a  waiting list for certain banjos, this one was not found acceptable by those which would have "seen it first".

Just my thoughts......

David

 

Dave

Dead on if it were a 3 or 75 it would be gone!!!!!

 

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backinthegame - Posted - 06/26/2012:  08:21:49

Hey Guys,

Are the 4s less desirable, or is the issue the re-plating?

Thanks,

John



Dave,

Can't tell you how much I enjoyed our time at Bean! Man, what a monster you've got! Mine finally came back on line after a little tweaking and play (although AB ing any banjo against yours is a mistake, lol)and have since gotten another modern construction that I'm pretty excited about; I'll post a topic about it here before long...

Thanks again!!!

Edited by - backinthegame on 06/26/2012 08:22:51