TX2AK - Posted - 04/27/2012:  01:58:19

About to install a vellum processed premounted head from Bill Miller's people. This is my first venture into skin heads, so I'm wondering what good safe starting head tension is, and also a "do not exceed" tension. I have and will use a neary drum dial to get fairly precise tension, so am hoping for advice from other folks who do the same.

For volume's sake, I've kept my renaissance head pretty tight - quarter won't quit slide under a straight edge, dime moves freely. I'm thinking it's A(ish).

jbalch - Posted - 04/27/2012:  04:39:16

I'm glad to hear you got the head from Bill's daughter (I assume).

I tension hide heads by sound and feel.  Sorrry ... can't help with drum dial readings.

A good, medium-thickness, vellum-processed hide is usually quite sturdy. It will take a reasonable amount of tension...but will not be exactly like mylar.  Just don't apply too-much tension...too fast. Expect and allow the hide a little time to stretch between tightening (especially for the first days).  A little patience is required as the head seasons.

I'll link this to the hide heads group.  maybe someone will respond there too. banjohangout.org/group/hideheads

Best Wishes....

Edited by - jbalch on 04/27/2012 04:43:31

carlb - Posted - 04/27/2012:  04:44:11

Skin head tension changes with humidity and temperature. For me, a newly mounted head should be set so the strings don't buzz with an 11/16" bridge. Over the next few months you may need to up the tension a bit to keep that condition. I would not recommend tightening and loosening the head (as weather conditions change) as, I believe, that would shorten it's life.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 04/27/2012:  09:37:00

Due to the thickness variance from head to head, there is probably no consistant set of numbers for a drum dial. As above, sound and feel are the things to go by.

I stretch a thread across the rim next to the bridge to see how far it is sinking into the head to gauge the tension. If your head gets too tight you will certainly want to take some tension off to prevent breakage. Another trick is to hit the head with warm air from a small hairdryer to tighten it.

It is all developing a feel for it. You'll develop a good sense for it quickly. In the end, skin heads are not as problematic as some folks think. All of my banjos have skins...I'll never go back to plastic.

TX2AK - Posted - 04/27/2012:  11:03:11

There's got to be a better way to do it than I have been with my ren head: I've just tightened it a little past finger tight with strings and bridge off, then set up, then do the straight edge/coin thing, and loosened the strings each time I tighten, then re-tighten, then re-loosen, then on and on that way until I got the setup I wanted. I thought there might be a more efficient way to do it, but have been afraid to tighten the nuts with tension on the head and bridge. Is it perfectly safe to SLOWLY tighten with the strings in tune or do I need to keep doing it this way?

I guess the variance in head thickness makes sense that there wouldn't be a "typical" torque value - hadn't thought of that.

blockader - Posted - 04/27/2012:  12:22:42

quote:

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

In the end, skin heads are not as problematic as some folks think. All of my banjos have skins...I'll never go back to plastic.

Do you not have problems with the skin heads outside of the home? its pretty humid in georgia and pretty variable, especially since a lot of playing occurs outdoors in the evening. i get some folks telling me (mostly on here) to "go skin" and others (mostly around here) telling me "its a huge pain in the arse."

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 04/27/2012:  12:36:27

TX2AK:

Honestly, it sounds like you're over-thinking the whole process (no criticism intended...we all have a learning curve on all of this stuff).

Once you've installed the head and everything is level finger tighten your nuts, then tighten 1/4 turn at a time on each nut. ***The main thing is to keep the tension even and the tension hoop level.***
I've used two methods
1) tighten the nuts going sequentially around the head, or
2) tighten the nuts across from each other. That is tighten the nuts in the 3 o'clock position, then the nuts in the 9 o'clock position. Then the nuts at the 4 o'clock position then the ones at the 10 o'clock position, etc.

I'd tighten it fairly tight. Bang on the head with your finger as you go. You want top put some tension on the head, but your ear and the feel of the head and torque needed to turn the nuts should be an indicator. The idea is not to get to the final tension at this point, just to take up most of the "slack".
Obviously it's better to under-tighten than over-tighten, so just relax and go as far as you're comfortable.

Now go ahead and place the bridge and strings. Using the same nut tightening sequence (consecutive or clock system) bring the tension up so that your bridge with strings at playing tension
only depress the head a reasonable amount. I shoot for 3/16"-1/4", but use your judgement and your ear. At the least, the head tension has to be so that the strings are high enough to not buzz on the frets. Beyond that, it's whatever sound you like.

As above, your head may stretch a bit, so check the tension regularly and adjust as needed until it is stable. No need to back off the tension on your strings when tightening the head.

From time to time or as you are tightening the head you will find loose nuts. Just finger tighten them and give them 1/8-1/4 turn with the wrench to make sure they're tight.

This whole process is a bit like cooking with the "a pinch of this and 2 pinches of that" method. More by feel than by science.

TX2AK - Posted - 04/27/2012:  13:06:18

Great - thanks! I'll post any other questions in the skin group, which I guess is really where I should have posted to begin with :-)

jbalch - Posted - 04/27/2012:  13:28:50

It is a good idea to post questions lik this in the set-up forum and link them to the group.  That way you will get maximum exposure and response.

I agree with RD's comments.  Like him, I've converted all my banjos to hide heads.  The sound is well worth and small hassle (IMHO).

jbalch - Posted - 04/27/2012:  14:49:49

I've been thinking about writing this down for a while...so here goes:

When it comes to proper tension, hide heads present a different set of issues than mylar. The characteristics of animal skin (thickness, stiffness, stretch, etc.) vary from one piece to another and even within different parts of the same hide.



Most of the hides supplied for banjo use today are not as finely processed as some vintage heads (Jos . A. Rogers for example). Sometimes you can feel a variance in thickness from one edge of the hide to the other. Many have a “mottled” look and/or translucent spots. The clear areas may feel stiffer than the white areas. It is my opinion that these natural variances in thickness and flexibility mean that drum-torque, drum-dial tension measurements or attempts to tune to a specific note are not useful methods of head tension (compared to mylar head set-up). Instead, best results are achieved when the tension is set by sound and feel.



It is not difficult to manually tension a skin head, you just have to proceed with a little care and listen carefully to your banjo. My process (described below) may seem complicated. But in practice it is really very simple. A little experience will help. Here is what I do:



1. Set the head and tension hoop on the rim and install the hooks finger-tight.

2. Inspect the tension hoop to make sure it is level all around the rim – adjust as needed so the hoop is level.

3. Apply tension to the nuts all around the rim – as evenly as possible. Go ahead and apply a good bit of tension so the head deflects only a little when pressed on top.

4. Tap the head at various points around the rim. Tap it sharply to produce a loud tone. Tap about one inch from the edge of the rim and listen carefully to the tone. Repeat the tap directly across from the original spot (same distance from the rim). Listen and compare the tones. If the pitch of the tapped tone is lower on one side (compared to the opposite), tighten the nuts at the lower point to raise the pitch. Do this at a few spots around the rim to establish even tones all around.

5. With the strings and bridge installed (and tuned to pitch), play a note on the first string at the highest fret…listen very carefully. A well tensioned head will produce a strong, clear, ringing, high note with long sustain and even decay. If the sound of that high note “wavers”, is unclear, or lacks sustain … repeat step 4 above.



Once you set-up a good sounding head, it is easy to maintain by simply adding tension evenly all around the rim as needed (due to stretching or weather conditions). Personally, I just tighten each hook sequentially around the rim. I tighten in very small increments (less than ¼ turn at a time) and go around the rim as many times as needed to do the job.



You can evaluate tension by several methods including: pressing on the head with your thumb to feel the tension, straight edge across the head to measure deflection (Steve Davis’ method), or (my method) looking at the back side of the head to see how far the bridge sinks in. These may give you a rule-of-thumb idea about the tension. With experience, that can be pretty reliable to help you judge your preferred setting.



BUT the most important tool in this process is your ear. Listen to your banjo to figure out what tension you prefer. Hide heads are easily replaceable and not too expensive. If you break one … mount another. The only way to learn is to experiment.



I hope this helps….best wishes!

 

Tim Zowada - Posted - 04/27/2012:  15:56:32

I recommend you do what jbalch says above. Then, to keep things sounding good on a daily basis I use the Steve Davis method. I use a nickel instead of a quarter. My drum dial is useless on the hide head.

I have gotten the best sound when The nickel just barely rocks the straight edge right next to the bridge (about 0.005"). That is usually about an A note. When the nickel just barely rocks the straight edge half way across the nickel, it isn't touching at all right next to the bridge. The head will be just south of a G#. At that point I tighten the nuts 1/8 turn. If the nickel is really rocking the straight edge right next to the bridge, I back off the nuts 1/8 turn.

This is a pretty easy way to keep track of things. I usually check it daily, but only tweak it when a front comes through and really changes the weather. It is interesting to have a banjo barometer. All of this is for an 11" Mastertone style banjo.

leemysliwiec - Posted - 05/05/2012:  13:11:32

Don't forget that for a new wet head, don't put final tension until after the DOUBLE LAYER OF SKIN BETWEEN THE RIM AND THE TENSION HOOP  is DRY.  If it is not really dry, it will stretch before the top of the head does and you will be adding tension on the sides and not so much on the top. The top will dry faster because two sides are exposed to air, while the over lapping  skin on the sides takes longer.  Don't be fooled just because the top looks dry.  Give it an extra day.  LEE

Bufo Bill - Posted - 05/05/2012:  14:21:06

Jbalch, that is a brilliant tutorial post, and the same goes for R.D's too. It is always nice to hear both an advanced and a simple method on these things, it is very reassuring and allows the novice to choose a method that best suits their temperament.
Once again well done guys.

All the best from Bill. :D

banjotom2 - Posted - 05/06/2012:  00:05:29

I had a real skin head old time, open-back banjo for quite a few years...

One winter the head blew...

I had it replaced and found that the type of heat in the house, propane at the time, was excessively dry and eventually caused the head to bust... coincidentally, I blew a hard drive within a week... it was  in February... that too was humidity related...

So, I got a room humidifier from that day forth and also an air-moisture reader (Barometer?) from Walmart...

Never had trouble with skin head or hard drives again...

Tom