darylcrisp - Posted - 02/08/2012:  01:09:53

about where is that song in a students progression? is it a very advanced song to learn-so far, its the 'one' i want to know and play well.

d

Frosty Morn - Posted - 02/08/2012:  04:08:28

A few thoughts.

My opinion, I would not say that there is a formal pedagogy for old-time banjo

such that we could place a particular tune on a timeline.  And "Cold

Frosty Morn" is, itself, only a melody with some implied harmony. Typical

in traditional music, what you get is the opportunity to create arrangements

of these melodies for clawhammer banjo, or lap dulcimer, or fiddle or...

If I have a student who is truly inspired to learn a tune, we would work up

an arrangement that was not terribly challenging.  Once that was under 

the fingers we could look at adding more to the arrangement.  

So you could start simply with a bum-ditty right hand, no left hand gymnastics

and no drop thumb and pick out the tune "Cold Frosty Morning" on your banjo.

Slowly, at first, but it would still be the tune.  If that is too much, break the 

challenge apart with left and right hand exercises - but keep the goal of

Frosty Morn (rings a bell...) in sight.

UNYBP - Posted - 02/08/2012:  05:31:46

And Frosty Morn does a really really nice version of that tune!

Frosty Morn - Posted - 02/08/2012:  12:48:55

Check is in the mail, Mitch.  

Chip Booth - Posted - 02/08/2012:  12:53:50

A fiddle tune such as that can be broken down into an easy arrangement or made as difficult as one can imagine.  If you have a specific version of it you are trying to emulate that would give us a better idea of what sort of skills it requires.

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/08/2012:  17:11:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chip Booth

A fiddle tune such as that can be broken down into an easy arrangement or made as difficult as one can imagine.  If you have a specific version of it you are trying to emulate that would give us a better idea of what sort of skills it requires.

---

 Chip

this is what stopped me in my tracks, so to speak, and end up 2 days later putting the Ramsey standard on hold at Zepp's.  this style of "cold frosty morn" is how i'd love to play it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExYuSFC1G8Q&feature=related

now, what can you all tell me about how this is played

thanks highly in advance

d

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 02/08/2012:  20:41:33

She's tuned to Sawmill tuning,gDGCD, and playing Clawhammer style. She is mostly keeping her thumb on the 5th string, not dropping it in to the long strings much. Some players use a lot of drop thumb, others not so much. That's mostly a preference each player develops. She isn't holding chords very much, again typical of a lot of players of Old Time banjo, but not universal. She's playing the melody notes with the back of one finger. Most players use either the index or middle finger. It's hard to answer questions without knowing what information you are looking for. For instance, are you clear on the terms Clawhammer and Drop Thumb, or do you need them explained? This is one of my favorite tunes, too, though I absolutely hate cold weather!
Paul

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/08/2012:  21:00:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by rendesvous1840

She's tuned to Sawmill tuning,gDGCD, and playing Clawhammer style. She is mostly keeping her thumb on the 5th string, not dropping it in to the long strings much. Some players use a lot of drop thumb, others not so much. That's mostly a preference each player develops. She isn't holding chords very much, again typical of a lot of players of Old Time banjo, but not universal. She's playing the melody notes with the back of one finger. Most players use either the index or middle finger. It's hard to answer questions without knowing what information you are looking for. For instance, are you clear on the terms Clawhammer and Drop Thumb, or do you need them explained? This is one of my favorite tunes, too, though I absolutely hate cold weather!

Paul

---

 Paul

thanks for chiming in and giving me excellent info. i'm a total beginner in banjo, i do play fingerstyle guitar for the last couple years-love dropped and alternate tunings. when i happened upon this youtube banjo video i was stopped in my tracks. i don't care for bluegrass banjo, i love the sound of this in the video. so i'm at that odd space in time of actually not even owning a banjo-have one on hold, and within a month or so hope to be ready to start.

i guess my question about this song, played the way she plays it, is:

where does this song played this way fit in ones learning curve-other replies above have pretty much answered that question. its just neat to find out all i can so i can prepare my practice to learn to play this song.

thanks and feel free to add anything else that comes to mind

d

plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 02/09/2012:  04:13:46

As you haven't already got a banjo then in some respects your on a better starting position than a learner with a banjo!    One significant barrier that I came up against was the alternative tuning required to play Cold & Frosty Morning; once your on the learning slope the different tone can be off putting.  

Most learning materials will start you off in either G or double C tunings; [gDGBD/aEAC#E & gCBCD/aEADE] these and their raised equivalents A and double D are the normal tunings in which the majority of songs & tunes are played in.  Cold & Frosty is one of the anomalies that require an alternative tuning, often called "sawmill" or "mountain minor" and it's that tuning that imparts the tunes feeling.  

If this is your "one tune" to learn then when your new banjo arrives DO NOT tune it to G tuning!!!  Tune directly to gDGCD/aEADE and get used to that sound.  The physical mechanics of playing are the same in any tuning, but the aural part of the learning journey is equally important; hence jumping directly into that tuning.  

Other tunes that also [often] use this tuning that may or may not be easier as learning pieces Shady Grove, Cluck Old Hen, The Coo Coo, Kitchen Girl, Pateroller.  

You can make use of the BHO's 'Tune of the Week' index and find a lot of information about this tune.

all the best

Chris

Edited by - plunknplinkntwang on 02/09/2012 04:18:07

QQQQQ - Posted - 02/09/2012:  04:36:48

I have been playing banjo for less than one year and I can play that tune just the way the Bernunzio girl plays it. Well maybe not as smooth...

Dwight Diller teaches you how to play it just the way she plays it on the utube you like, note by note, on his wonderful DVD "MORE CLAWHAMMER BANJO INSTRUCTION." Very inspiring.

strumn1 - Posted - 02/09/2012:  08:38:46

I, too, love this tune, although I am not able to embellish it in the many ways I've heard it done. I seem to play it nearly the same every time through, which can get a little boring. What would be awesome is if someone (Zepp? or anyone) could post a video of perhaps just the basic melody played straight, and then progress with ornaments and maybe even a little up the neck. That way we could all benefit and perhaps learn something.

Do most of you play it in Sawmill Gm, or capoed to Am? I slightly prefer the higher one.

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/09/2012:  09:01:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by plunknplinkntwang

As you haven't already got a banjo then in some respects your on a better starting position than a learner with a banjo!    One significant barrier that I came up against was the alternative tuning required to play Cold & Frosty Morning; once your on the learning slope the different tone can be off putting.  

Most learning materials will start you off in either G or double C tunings; [gDGBD/aEAC#E & gCBCD/aEADE] these and their raised equivalents A and double D are the normal tunings in which the majority of songs & tunes are played in.  Cold & Frosty is one of the anomalies that require an alternative tuning, often called "sawmill" or "mountain minor" and it's that tuning that imparts the tunes feeling.  

If this is your "one tune" to learn then when your new banjo arrives DO NOT tune it to G tuning!!!  Tune directly to gDGCD/aEADE and get used to that sound.  The physical mechanics of playing are the same in any tuning, but the aural part of the learning journey is equally important; hence jumping directly into that tuning.  

Other tunes that also [often] use this tuning that may or may not be easier as learning pieces Shady Grove, Cluck Old Hen, The Coo Coo, Kitchen Girl, Pateroller.  

You can make use of the BHO's 'Tune of the Week' index and find a lot of information about this tune.

all the best

Chris

---

 chris

thanks for this info, this is the game plan and i love how you laid it out. this is what i needed to know so i can progress towards that song. excellent

oh, and i have some versions of "the coo coo" i play on guitar so i like that song as well. i'm not familiar with Kitchen Girl or Pateroller but will check into them-i bet i'll like them too.

d

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/09/2012:  09:03:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by QQQQQ

I have been playing banjo for less than one year and I can play that tune just the way the Bernunzio girl plays it. Well maybe not as smooth...

Dwight Diller teaches you how to play it just the way she plays it on the utube you like, note by note, on his wonderful DVD "MORE CLAWHAMMER BANJO INSTRUCTION." Very inspiring.

 

 thanks Foster

will check into this for sure-sounds like a winner

d

---

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/09/2012:  21:07:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by rendesvous1840

She's tuned to Sawmill tuning,gDGCD, and playing Clawhammer style. She is mostly keeping her thumb on the 5th string, not dropping it in to the long strings much. Some players use a lot of drop thumb, others not so much. That's mostly a preference each player develops. She isn't holding chords very much, again typical of a lot of players of Old Time banjo, but not universal. She's playing the melody notes with the back of one finger. Most players use either the index or middle finger. It's hard to answer questions without knowing what information you are looking for. For instance, are you clear on the terms Clawhammer and Drop Thumb, or do you need them explained? This is one of my favorite tunes, too, though I absolutely hate cold weather!

Paul

---

 Paul

thanks for the info, and this is just a cool song to my ears-really like it(like it enough to want to start learning how to play).

lots of excellent info here to digest-i'm looking around local for a teacher-there absolutely must be one in southwest virginia

plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 02/10/2012:  01:58:18

 Daryl

Though the Bernunzio clip shows the lass playing clawhammer style there are other playing styles within “old time music”.   They are variations that use different methods to pluck the strings.  The playing style does have an influence on the feel of the music; it’s worth bearing in mind that you may find that another style is more natural to you.

Two Finger, thumb lead style – BHO member Mojomonk is an exponent of this style.  Not having looked hard I’ve no example of Cold & Frosty played in this style.  But here’s a link to the Coo Coo played in that style.

archive.org/download/Coo/CooCooBird.mp3

Two Finger, finger lead style – BHO member Chip Arnold has a video of Cold & Frosty with an excellent camera angle.

banjohangout.org/myhangout/vid...erID=6347

Three finger style – BHO member Don Borchelt has a video where he demonstrates this style in a banjo duet with Ed Britt who’s playing clawhammer style

banjohangout.org/myhangout/vid...erID=8408

For teachers - look in the green coloured vertical tabs on the left of the BHO page & click on - Members - Teacher search

rgds

Chris

Edited by - plunknplinkntwang on 02/10/2012 02:00:24

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/10/2012:  12:22:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by plunknplinkntwang

 Daryl

Though the Bernunzio clip shows the lass playing clawhammer style there are other playing styles within “old time music”.   They are variations that use different methods to pluck the strings.  The playing style does have an influence on the feel of the music; it’s worth bearing in mind that you may find that another style is more natural to you.

Two Finger, thumb lead style – BHO member Mojomonk is an exponent of this style.  Not having looked hard I’ve no example of Cold & Frosty played in this style.  But here’s a link to the Coo Coo played in that style.

archive.org/download/Coo/CooCooBird.mp3

Two Finger, finger lead style – BHO member Chip Arnold has a video of Cold & Frosty with an excellent camera angle.

banjohangout.org/myhangout/vid...erID=6347

Three finger style – BHO member Don Borchelt has a video where he demonstrates this style in a banjo duet with Ed Britt who’s playing clawhammer style

banjohangout.org/myhangout/vid...erID=8408

 

For teachers - look in the green coloured vertical tabs on the left of the BHO page & click on - Members - Teacher search

 

rgds

Chris

---

 Chip Arnolds 2 finger style is awesome!  The sound is something else-and honestly that style would easily go along with my fingerstyle playing of guitar. thanks for posting this info, i had no idea.

i've come to the point of thinking that banjo is more involved and consuming than guitar-what with all the tunings and songs and styles.

So is there a specific name for this 2 finger style of banjo?

thanks

d

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/10/2012:  12:23:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by UNYBP

And Frosty Morn does a really really nice version of that tune!

---

 okay, i just "got" this.

and yes, you are right, real nice version.

thanks for posting

d

stevel - Posted - 02/10/2012:  13:12:30

this is close to what she is playing, and should help you get started:



direct.hangoutstorage.com/banj...n-692.gif

Edited by - stevel on 02/10/2012 13:13:06

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/10/2012:  19:04:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevel

this is close to what she is playing, and should help you get started:



direct.hangoutstorage.com/banj...n-692.gif

 

---

 thanks steve, thats really neat, i've looked around for a while and didn't find tabs for the song, and these being close to the way she plays is cool

d

chip arnold - Posted - 02/10/2012:  20:50:28

"he sound is something else-and honestly that style would easily go along with my fingerstyle playing of guitar. thanks for posting this info, i had no idea.
i've come to the point of thinking that banjo is more involved and consuming than guitar-what with all the tunings and songs and styles.
So is there a specific name for this 2 finger style of banjo?"

i play index lead 2-finger. others play thumb lead. some mix the two. actually, i switch to thumb lead occasionally for short passages if it brings notes that i want to play, into reach.
there is an audio explanation on my music page and a few tabs on my photo page.

chip arnold - Posted - 02/10/2012:  20:53:11

shameless plug ... i'll be teaching a week of 2-finger banjo at the John C. Campbell Folk school in May.

folkschool.org/index.php?secti...r_id=1094

JanetB - Posted - 02/11/2012:  12:10:22

Hi!  This is a great thread about a song I've enjoyed for a long time.  What a perfect song and fantastic video to motivate someone to take a learning jump.  Hope you don't mind me posting my version of Frosty Morning in answer to a question.  I learned this from Miles Krassen's tab book Clawhammer Banjo, Frosty Morning, page 36.  He says it's based on Henry Reed fiddling and that Bob Hicks plays a good version of it.  Because I'm using a Gold Tone Cripple Creek mini-banjo, the key will sound much higher than normal sawmill.  You'd need a capo on the 7th fret to match my pitch.  I was told my playing is more Celtic/Irish sounding and that's just the way the song came out!

Frosty Morning

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/11/2012:  16:06:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by chip arnold

shameless plug ... i'll be teaching a week of 2-finger banjo at the John C. Campbell Folk school in May.



folkschool.org/index.php?secti...r_id=1094

---

 chip

thanks for posting-your version is awesome, love the sound and style. i doubt i can make the school, would love too, but i don't have the banjo yet-and it will probably be at least another month before i can finish payment on it-therefore, i would probably be a pretty raw beginner(which might actually be good?). but due to a lot of other things(work needing done on the house, and other fund outlay, the  banjo purchase), my free cash will be limited around this time.

quesiton: i live about 1 hour from Gray, Tn.  Is there anyone still over there you know who might be willing to introduce me to the style?

and the other thought is if you offer the school next year, i can plan for that and hopefully have some sort of skill by then to work with.

thanks

daryl

darylcrisp - Posted - 02/11/2012:  16:07:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by JanetB

Hi!  This is a great thread about a song I've enjoyed for a long time.  What a perfect song and fantastic video to motivate someone to take a learning jump.  Hope you don't mind me posting my version of Frosty Morning in answer to a question.  I learned this from Miles Krassen's tab book Clawhammer Banjo, Frosty Morning, page 36.  He says it's based on Henry Reed fiddling and that Bob Hicks plays a good version of it.  Because I'm using a Gold Tone Cripple Creek mini-banjo, the key will sound much higher than normal sawmill.  You'd need a capo on the 7th fret to match my pitch.  I was told my playing is more Celtic/Irish sounding and that's just the way the song came out!

 janet

this is just beautiful. we love celtic sounds, i play some celtic guitar and the wife does  a little mandolin. this on a banjo is outright nice!

thanks for sharing

d

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