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McUtsi - Posted - 02/05/2012: 11:24:04
We all what Gibson banjos served as role models for the "Masterclones" of the
70´s,and the elusive TT wasn´t one of them...were any MIJ TT´s,true to orig specs,ever
produced..?..I don´t recall any sightings...ever...McUtsi
kmwaters - Posted - 02/05/2012: 11:42:05
I don't think so either. But top tension is an interesting design. I believe today Stelling and Prucha are still making a TT model. Would love to add to the collection some day but right now my BAS is in remission or dormant.
banjoy - Posted - 02/05/2012: 12:15:55
McUtsi, do you mean TT's clones specific to the 1970s? Only one I can recall would be the Great Lakes TT but it was not really a clone, they had some unique features (flange, brackets etc) so I guess that falls outside of the clones...
I know that recently TT's seem to be having a revival of sorts, with several makers offering them and I think Recording King may be about to release one, not sure.
But I would agree with you, I think there were no TT Gibson clones during that time period...? Not positive though. It would be interesting to learn otherwise...
skylark - Posted - 02/05/2012: 12:26:22
Not to sound uneducated but , well, I am. What is "top tension" or TT mean anyway? Example= my Samick SS350 TT. I know it's not an expensive banjo but I assume it was cloned after some more upper end makes.
Thanks.
Paul R - Posted - 02/05/2012: 12:27:36
Good question. Not to drift too far, but I'd like to know where some of the parts for this frankenbanjo, cobbled together in the seventies, came from. Somebody was at least making the top-tension hoops and flanges. The arch-top tone ring is a Liberty. Arch-top top-tension is not a uncommon combination.
banjoy - Posted - 02/05/2012: 12:35:21
Slightly off topic but still TT related...
I got my TT kit from Liberty Banjo Company in 1977 or 1978. Very high-quality solid parts. The flange is not cast, is was turned on a lathe from a solid block. I'm guessing your TT kit is also from Liberty.
Bob Flesher was one of the owners of Liberty banjo and is still in the business. Here's his website. I think a lot of TT's from that time period would have Liberty parts maybe? Those would be more in line with a clone as essentially the parts were copies of Gibson parts.
Edited by - banjoy on 02/05/2012 12:35:52
banjoy - Posted - 02/05/2012: 12:39:25
quote:
Originally posted by skylark
Not to sound uneducated but , well, I am. What is "top tension" or TT mean anyway? Example= my Samick SS350 TT. I know it's not an expensive banjo but I assume it was cloned after some more upper end makes.
Thanks.
Hey skylark. Look at the pot assembly in PaulR's post above. A top tension banjo has bolts that thread right into the flange and are adjusted from the top. This came from the old days when banjos had skin heads, so as to make it easier to adjust the head without having to remove the resonator. TT's are sought after now more for the nostalgia and they do have a little more sustain, a slightly different tone, and they just plain look cool.
Your banjo is a regular Gibson-style banjo and is not top tension.
Emiel - Posted - 02/05/2012: 12:51:07
quote:
Originally posted by skylark
Not to sound uneducated but , well, I am. What is "top tension" or TT mean anyway? Example= my Samick SS350 TT. I know it's not an expensive banjo but I assume it was cloned after some more upper end makes.
Thanks.
Skylark, have a look here:
earnestbanjo.com/gibson_banjo_...sions.htm
sunburst - Posted - 02/05/2012: 12:53:17
Paul, I don't know who made them, but the tension hoop and flange in your pictures look like very good replicas of the original Gibson parts, at least from this distance.
skylark - Posted - 02/05/2012: 13:02:24
Thanks for the quick reply. Boy, that was easy. I guess I could have searched it out before I asked but next time...
Paul R - Posted - 02/05/2012: 13:11:18
Since the tone ring says Liberty, I figured the whole assembly would be, which Frank (Banjoy) seems to have confirmed - thanks, Frank. The time frame seems to fit well, too, as I acquired used it in the late seventies. I was given to understand that it was put together by someone in a BG band called the Kent County Pickers here in Ontario (can't confirm it, though). He opted for the unconventional combination of top-tension and arch-top.
I wonder if the top-tension design was part of a contest to see who could build the world's heaviest banjo.
banjoy - Posted - 02/05/2012: 13:17:43
I'll post some photos of my TT banjo in the very near future. I love TT's and it's always a treat to learn more about them. Love 'em.
banjoy - Posted - 02/05/2012: 13:23:38
I'm unsure now if the flange came from Liberty, or from Stewart MacDonald. I threaded the flange myself with a tap kit that came from liberty, where I bought at least the tension hoop from. I just can't remember now. I think I got both from Liberty as a complete kit. I just added tone ring and rim. Got those from Bill Sullivan. Anyway, I'll bet yours (PaulR) is Liberty.
Maybe we ought to email Bob Flesher and harass him LOL.
So don't know if there were "production" TT clones as per the opening post, but at least there are quite a few one-up banjos out there from that era, for sure.
Well, at least two 
Edited by - banjoy on 02/05/2012 13:24:24
DHutchens - Posted - 02/05/2012: 14:18:41
Me thinks that Liberty's top tension set came from Siminoff.....at least the one I got from them had Siminoff stamped where the tail piece goes that way.....
When you harass Bob Flesher...tell him I said Hi.
:)
Doug
McUtsi - Posted - 02/05/2012: 14:51:40
Oh man,I´m gonna have to check my postings before I send them off...the odd word
missing etc...well,You got my point anyway...Thanks for the input...see,I just think
those TT´s are cool banjos & really a style apart...but You just don´t stumble over any
IIda or Ibanez TT´s,do You..?..none ever produced,I gather...McUtsi
Plastichead - Posted - 02/05/2012: 17:03:25
Crafters Of Tennessee made them in the 70's, I know 'cause I've got one I bought new in 75. Love it!
Keith.
El Dobro - Posted - 02/05/2012: 17:37:47
quote:
Originally posted by Plastichead
Crafters Of Tennessee made them in the 70's, I know 'cause I've got one I bought new in 75. Love it!
Keith.
Yep, and they did a darn good job of doing what Gibson did in the late 30's.
McUtsi - Posted - 02/06/2012: 00:25:49
Just saw a -75 COT TT when I was browsing...nice...McUtsi
desert rose - Posted - 02/06/2012: 01:53:06
I know of no top tension banjos made by any of the Japanese brands. I have heard that a couple Goldstars were made but they were assembled in America from American top tension parts
Scott
DHutchens - Posted - 02/06/2012: 04:34:10
Can a top tension ring replace an ordinary ring
Yes, but the flange will need to be threaded to accept the bolts.
TR Dockery - Posted - 02/06/2012: 05:46:00
quote:
Originally posted by DHutchens
Can a top tension ring replace an ordinary ring
Yes, but the flange will need to be threaded to accept the bolts.
'Probably need to take a little off the corners of the neck/fretboard between the respective bolt holes, too. The---"collars"(?) for the bolt holes in the hoop won't fit otherwise.
Happy trails,
Randy in Germantown, TN
beegee - Posted - 02/06/2012: 06:04:12
I love, love, love my Top-Tension:
sunburst - Posted - 02/06/2012: 08:48:18
quote:
Originally posted by DHutchens
Can a top tension ring replace an ordinary ring
Yes, but the flange will need to be threaded to accept the bolts.
Or. if you just want the look and don't want to modify the flange, smaller bolts and nuts can be used so that you can have a heavier banjo that is much more difficult to adjust head tension. How much is it worth to look "cool"? 
McUtsi - Posted - 02/07/2012: 01:06:06
beegee...that´s a nice banjo...McUtsi
Rettro - Posted - 02/08/2012: 19:01:33
BeeGee put up a picture of his Harry Lane top tension--master of the top tension. All his banjos are top tension. Not only does he engrave them but he makes all the metal parts. I mean cuts and grinds. Even that tailpiece on BeeGee's Model G. That is the tightest bear claw tailpiece made. On my picture, note that even the top tension bolts are engraved.
beegee - Posted - 02/09/2012: 08:55:13
quote:
Originally posted by McUtsi
beegee...that´s a nice banjo...McUtsi
Harry Lane is a remarkable craftsman. He makes heirloom-style museum-quality custom furniture, pool cues, pool tables, as well as his banjos, mandolins, violins, guitars, engraves firearms and collects ivory objets d'arts.. He made Top-Tensions for Hub Nitchie, Eddie Adcock, Jim Smoak, Don Reno, Jimmy Arnold, and most recently, Raymond Fairchild,me, Rett Allsbrook and a doctor out in ND or somewhere. Viet Doehler in Germany has one and there are a couple more out west and another in Georgia and one in Virginia somewhere. I'd like to get a complete accounting of all the extant Lane banjos for an unofficial Harry Lane website . There are not that many Lane banjos in circulation. Harry has most of them in his private collection. rhlane.net.
My Model G is gold-plated, engraved and made of walnut with abalone purfling. Varnish finish. The tone ring, tension hoop and flange are milled(not cast) from solid brass billet. The tone ring has a concave surface and large slots milled to lighten it. The resonator is machine so that it will stay on the flange even when the thumbscrews are removed. The neck is wider and flatter than a typical Gibson-style banjo.This is absolutely the most-powerful banjo I have played. I retired my 28 Granada when i got it and the only reason I'm not playing it now is because I am too sorry to re-engrave the inlays after fingerboard repairs caused by a broken spike repair.
I am honored to own a Harry Lane banjo. That's one reason that I don't quite buy into the PW Gibson madness. I have a one-of-a-kind banjo, made for me, that will hold its own against anything out there.
Rettro - Posted - 02/11/2012: 08:49:41
Just talked with Harry Lane about the ins and outs of top tension. He tells me Gibson used bigger bolts with a wider thread. The flange was not very thick so a problem with stripping developed. He says that is the reason for the finer thread on the bolts on his banjos and his flange is milled from a solid billet and is thicker so the hold is better and stripping is not a problem. He got a hold of one of the Czech top tension hoops and it is cut in a strip by a CRC machine, bent and welded. CRC can cut these quickly out of a strip of metal. The smaller bolts on the Lane looks better(and for the reasons above, is more secure). I'm still working on BeeGee's instructions on getting a larger picture up...I can't seem to make the computer take the change from "small" to "large"....but if you click on the attached photo, you'll get a close up view of what I'm talking about.
Edited by - Rettro on 02/11/2012 08:51:46
BanjoLink - Posted - 02/11/2012: 09:28:56
Quote; "I am honored to own a Harry Lane banjo. That's one reason that I don't quite buy into the PW Gibson madness. I have a one-of-a-kind banjo, made for me, that will hold its own against anything out there."
Bob - no question that Harry makes great banjos and you are certainly privileged to own one (I would be too), but I don't see how that has anything to do with the "PW Gibson madness". Harry's banjo may sound better to your ears, and many others, as well as many other new banjos, but I don't think that diminishes the value many others see in the PW Gibsons. I recently played a Lloyd Loar F-5 and one of Lynn Dudenbostel's F-5's, side by side, and quite frankly, I liked the playability and sound better on Lynn's instrument, but it did not in any way make me think any less of the Gibson.
I thought Harry's early banjos had aluminum tone rings. If so, when did he change to brass?
beegee - Posted - 02/11/2012: 13:47:33
It has everything to do with the idea that I don't lust for a pre-war Gibson as the end-all, beat-all of banjodom. I said I don't buy into it, because:1. I have a PW Gibson, although it is not a OPF Flathead, it is a great banjo. 2. I have a banjo unlike any other, that was made for me.
I don't think less of Gibson PW banjos, I just highly prize Harry's friendship first and then his craftsmanship. I have all the banjo I'll ever need. I get a bigger thrill playing my Lane than I've ever gotten playing a PW Gibson, and I've played some good ones.
Harry made one or two aluminum banjos, but most have been brass or bronze. The aluminum banjos sounded really good, but the banjo community just has never embraced the concept.
Edited by - beegee on 02/11/2012 13:53:59
