silvioferretti - Posted - 01/12/2012:  09:20:38

Just saw this:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...247wt_941

but to my knowledge Saga never made a Gold Star with a double-cut peghead neck on a tube-and-pale pot, not to mention the sunburst resonator. If this was a G-11 it would have a fiddle peghead, if it was a rare GF-100A it would have a OPF pot (and H&F fingerboard). So somebody must have stuck a Gold Star neck on a non-Saga pot, or something. It may sound good, heck even great for what I know, but it's not an original Gold Star. Scott? Anybody?

O.D. - Posted - 01/12/2012:  09:29:40

I have the same banjo

1978 Goldstar G11.

 Scott says its made by Tokai.

 I guess they were not associated with Saga at that time?

Regards, O.D.

silvioferretti - Posted - 01/12/2012:  09:50:04

Does it have a double-cut peghead and FE inlays?...

mikehalloran - Posted - 01/12/2012:  10:17:05

I remember those from back in the day.

silvioferretti - Posted - 01/12/2012:  10:24:13

... did I really write "tube-and-pale"?... 

eMike - Posted - 01/12/2012:  16:37:06

Hadn't noticed till you told us.  That's the first mistake I ever saw on the BHO.

Ebanjo - Posted - 01/12/2012:  17:09:12

Silvio, A friend of mine here in N.C. has one. He bought it in the early 80's.
Eric Ellis

O.D. - Posted - 01/12/2012:  17:15:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by silvioferretti

Does it have a double-cut peghead and FE inlays?...

 

Yes Sir,it does.

 It actualy has what Ive heard described as the "Full Flying Eagles" inlay.

Fe inlay on the board and peghead.

 I guess that  might be the distinction from some of the "Flying Eagles" with FE board and style 3, or "leaves and bows" on the peghead , as some GS banjo's have.

 Regards, O.D.

---

beegee - Posted - 01/12/2012:  18:34:20

SUpposedly it's the same as the Fujigen 589FB I banez Artist from the late 70's

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 01/12/2012:  20:15:16

quote: 

---

Just saw this:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...247wt_941

but to my knowledge Saga never made a Gold Star with a double-cut peghead neck on a tube-and-pale pot, not to mention the sunburst resonator. If this was a G-11 it would have a fiddle peghead, if it was a rare GF-100A it would have a OPF pot (and H&F fingerboard). So somebody must have stuck a Gold Star neck on a non-Saga pot, or something. It may sound good, heck even great for what I know, but it's not an original Gold Star. Scott? Anybody?

---

I think it's real.

Store I once worked for sold a lot of Gold Star banjos and I seem to remember a couple like this passing through. 

~Pete

silvioferretti - Posted - 01/13/2012:  03:27:06

My bad then... Hope this mishap on my side will turn into good publicity for the seller.

Applesnake - Posted - 01/27/2012:  06:46:08

Talking about first generation Gold Stars, further oddities do show up from time to time.

Although I can't recall the link to the actual thread, a few days ago I happened to stumble upon a discussion where some Asian banjo expert stated that all the dark mahogany, OPF series masterclones  (85, 100 & 200 I guess) were fitted with flathead rings while all archtops (11's and 12's as I can remember) sported maple construction with neck centerstripe, natural finish, multi-ply rims with tube & plate flange. It also seems that the two main strains of Gold Stars came from different factories but I really can't tell. I should check again with the late Mr. Hawthorne's long outdated web pages (Paul passed away when after a brief mail exchange I had just started a collaboration with him gathering and processing as much information as I could about the banjos which make up 95% of bread-and-butter setup jobs) and perform a deep search within these pages where a subscriber used to work with / for Saga or Kasuga or Takeuchi. To date, I really don't remember.

However many years ago a freshly purchased vintage Gold Star came to my workshop for a complete overhaul. It was very very battered, it had nasty buckle scars on back of resonator complete with many spots of flaked or chipped finish, upbowed fingerboard with truss rod already tightened almost to snapping point, the (surely hammered in) 5th string tuner's shank ridge managed to wedge crack its hole, the first five frets were worn nearly flat. Cloudy, almost pitted plating throughout completed a sad picture whose topping was a subtle yet dangerous peghead volute crack, peddled by the former owner as a "hairline finish check". Okay, let's skip any comments for now...

Well that was a stock, mahogany GF 100 HF with the usual configuration: double cut peghead, three-ply maple rim, coffee brown stain under clear lacquer. But a 40-hole archtop ring actually sat (quite loosely) above a thick layer of lacquer which nonetheless showed a poorly planed rim top beneath... Nobody ever thought about stripping it and turn, rout, or shim the ledge in order to get a perfect wood-to-metal fit, so I did it.

For the sake of subject, pot assembly appeared as being a genuine original: no signs of tinkering or tampering with. My guess is that nobody had ever taken it apart still, let alone checked closely every inch of its surface. The story goes on that shortly after completing the work, upon delivering the banjo to the owner I heard rumors of people with a flathead ring in their hands stalking that very GF 100 HF.

Maybe it was a one-of-a-kind. Maybe there's a third, rather obscure strain of Gold Stars out there.

Maybe «tube & pale» Silvio could chime in an clarify a little since he used to sell them in our homeland.

Best regards to ya all.

Edited by - Applesnake on 01/27/2012 06:48:13

drifty - Posted - 01/27/2012:  08:17:52

Silvio, I think this is the first time you've ever been wrong!!! I think Silvio will agree that the ultimate authority on all things Gold Star is Richard Keldsen. He's the guy who started SAGA and developed the original Gold Stars back in the '70s. This particular banjo is an oddball for sure. But really cool. That's the original "blue" case that they came in. $900 and change for that banjo was a steal. 

In a discussion with Mr. Keldsen at the 2011 IBMA (at which Silvio was present) Richard told me that sometime in the mid '80s the factory that had been building Gold Star banjos (Tokai?) went out of business and the relatively small number of original Gold Star banjos made after that (before they were discontinued) were built by luthiers at the Kentucky mandolin works.  That's why some of the later examples are slightly different color, construction, etc. I know of one, an '86 GF100FE, that is unique in several particulars and is a powerhouse of a banjo. That banjo, and a few other old Goldies I can recall, are absolutely fine sounding, professional level banjos.

silvioferretti - Posted - 01/28/2012:  15:12:24

Andrea, if the banjo you're talking about was the one that Michele brought to you, it was a rare GF-100A, original 40-hole archtop and OPF. I'm not going to talk about this very banjo any further, and you may know why (contact me off-list if you care to know). I imported that GF-100A myself (along with an identical one), and it came to me with that handstop crack which WAS a hairline finish crack, nothing worse or more dangerous than that. I discounted that banjo about 30% because of the crack, plus I gave my word that I would replace the neck or even the banjo if the crack had opened any deeper than that. As far as I know that neck is still in one piece after 27 years. I wish I had kept one of those  two GF-100As, as they were great, and rare. They sounded really fat for an archtop, pretty much like the OPF -3s from the '30s did, had a nice neck, and only a few tens of them were built, making them sort of a collectors' item.

Speaking of Saga Kentucky banjos, I sold my Wreath Mastermodel recently, I regret it already as it was a fine banjo, so much better than most Gold Stars of the same years, possibly thanks to the pot metal flange and Sumi's neck. Wonderful inlay work, almost too delicate for a prewar Gibson copy... and with the block at the right fret, to boot!...

Edited by - silvioferretti on 01/28/2012 15:12:47

drifty - Posted - 01/30/2012:  05:43:32

Silvio, was Sumi associated with the Kentucky mandolin works? And were a few of the Gold Stars built there more similar in appearance to the Kentucky banjos than the Tokai built versions? That is, darker reddish stain (less ginger colored), better fitted heel cuts, better inlays?

BanjoLink - Posted - 01/30/2012:  08:35:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by drifty

Silvio, was Sumi associated with the Kentucky mandolin works? And were a few of the Gold Stars built there more similar in appearance to the Kentucky banjos than the Tokai built versions? That is, darker reddish stain (less ginger colored), better fitted heel cuts, better inlays?

---

 Drifty  -  Sumi made some of the Kentucky mandolins for a period of time (in the 80's I think) so the answer would be yes.  Scott Zimmerman knows Sumi and when he worked where, so maybe he will chime in.

desert rose - Posted - 01/30/2012:  17:20:50

Hi Drew

Sumi is my best friend here in Japan. You can get a lot of the history on the mandolincafe. Ive spent years correcting the history of Kentucky over there. Sumi was a premier member of the Maruko Kentucky workshop that built the KM 1000, 1500 and Dawg mandolins.  He was the only formaly trained carver. When the Kentucky workshop disbanded, Sumi bought it and  became the sole builder. When I met Sumi in 1989 he was building all the Kentucky mandolins by himself and stopped in late 1992.

The information that you got from Richard is not 100 percent correct. The banjos actually came first, the Maruko shop started by building Goldstar flatheads. They did everything from resonators to rims to necks. When the Kentucky mandolin project came to light the Maruko shop switched to mandolins. The Goldstar flatheads were made at a number of small shops like this thru out the history and only briefly were they made at the Tokai factory. Sumi also built the Kentucky banjos. I actually have a couple black peghead overlays with the Kentucky logo and 75 style pearl. I also have the Crowe Goldstar Granada engraving artwork.

I now own most all the existing Goldstar jigs and tooling. Sumi gave them to me about ten years ago.

Scott