Banjamin - Posted - 01/03/2012:  19:44:08

I've been starting to play the clawhammer style and was really able to improve with the feedback and reassurance that I got from this forum. I was still having trouble getting a clear sound out of the fourth string (D) though. I just couldnt seem to strike it well. Meaning I couldnt strike it accurately and cleanly enough to make a sound loud enough to execute a slide on that string for example. So for haha's I tried something that I heard somewhere or other, which was to put a metal finger pick on backwards, on my middle fingernail and frail like that. The sound is a thousand times better for me. It's like night and day, not only on that string but all of the strings, with greatly improved accuracy, and a much more crisp sound.
I can't let my fingernail grow out to replicate a pick like I used to notice on my teachers finger, because of work, but I find this backwards pick to be a comfortable alternative.
I'm wondering what the consensus is regarding this method. Is it cheating, or anything like that? It was such an immediate improvement, that I have to wonder how it's viewed by seasoned players.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 01/03/2012:  19:57:42

I never used to do this but my nails have gone brittle in the past couple years so I do it all the time now. Fortunately I had a fair amount of practice with using a pick this way in the past so it was an easy transition. There is no shame in using a pick, and it is a practice that goes back at least 160 years - actually probably longer.

I have a brief video about altering plastic finger picks for frailing on my BHO homepage. Just click on the name "oldwoodchuckb" above my avatar.

Frosty Morn - Posted - 01/03/2012:  19:58:00

If it works for you, and it sounds like you are pleased with the results, then

it's a good thing!

I want to preserve my natural fingernail for guitar playing, so for long banjo

session I will use the "armor" of some ping-pong ball material.  I cut, shape

and smooth this myself and stick it on my nail with double sided tape meant

for fake nails.  Better tone and, like you, I find I can be more accurate with

the 4th string.

It's all good.

whyteman - Posted - 01/03/2012:  20:20:10

The great old time musician, Hobart Smith of Virginia used this method to offset the fact that he was a compulsive nail biter. His percussive, but clear playing is instantly recognizable...and revered.



I'd held myself back from using a metal pick for years; then I began playing with a great fiddler. He plays loud and quite fast. He was always wanting "more banjo!" and the top of my nail would be aching in pain after an hour of playing with him. And I occasionally broke a nail when we'd play for a while.



Now I use the inverted metal pick all the time. It took about two weeks for me to get comfortable and become accurate with the "armor" on. Since I pick up with my index as well as frail down with my middle, I now wear a pick the regular way on my index to balance the sound. One more benefit is that my sound remains good even with a capo, and I venture up the neck more than I used to, especially when backing a song.



Finally, my playing is cleaner and more fluid; better volume with far less "effort". And I can actually hear myself in group situations. A permanent change for me! And I feel as "old-timey" as ever, if that's a concern.



Don



 

Edited by - whyteman on 01/03/2012 20:22:43

pauwac - Posted - 01/03/2012:  20:35:35

I agree with the others who've written in.  I use a backwards pick (on my index finger) because I hate having long nails.  There aren't any rules in old-time music, just feelings, so go ahead and use one.  Have fun and keep at it.

Franz - Posted - 01/03/2012:  22:25:15

The Fred Kelly Freedom Pick is specialized for CH - I'm using it with good results when my frailing nail is broken. From my experience, it adapts better to CH than the reverse metal pick.  Look it up at the usual music stores.

SidBarone - Posted - 01/04/2012:  01:21:57

If you haven't yet tried the Joel Hooks "Brass Thimble", do yo'self a huge big favour* (that's how we spell it)..
Before this.. i'd tried the "ping pong ball nail thing" & the "backward pick thing" (both metal & plastic).. & even got me one of those "wire frame picks" for frailing, but nothing, & i mean Nothing... is as comfortable & works or sounds as good as "the thimble".. that subtle but precise bend at the tip makes a world of difference.. & they're so reasonably priced, that I bought two.. Now if i don't loose 'em (touch wood), they're built to last lifetimes, you can bequeath these babies to your children's children, & they'd be grateful you did!!.. Now i gotta' say, i have no vested interest in the sale or marketing of these picks, other than recommending them highly to whomever will listen.. They can be found on Joel Hooks website thejoelhooks.com/Site/Buy_Thimbles.html *(sorry, don't know how to hyperlink it). & There's more to read on the Thimbles if you search in the BHO forum archives. "Save the Nail"

Viper - Posted - 01/04/2012:  06:49:46

I second Joel Hooks' thimbles: thejoelhooks.com/Site/Buy_Thimbles.html

I only use it during jams when I feel drowned out by everyone else, but it's comfortable and sounds great. Cheers!

R Buck - Posted - 01/04/2012:  07:12:43

I also like Joel's thimbles.  They work very well for me when in high noise situations.

ScottK - Posted - 01/04/2012:  07:35:56

I use a pick for volume as well.  I too like the sound of a brass pick, but I use a Propik brass split wrap pick that I get from Elderly.  I like the way the split wrap grips my finger.

Scott 

erikforgod - Posted - 01/04/2012:  07:40:51

I agree with R Buck.....I use the Joe Hook Thimble picks....I also have some banjer picks that I wear backwards too as backups but the thimble beats em all in my opinion!

JanetB - Posted - 01/04/2012:  07:42:58

Thanks for the Joel Hook tip.  My best luck has been with a plastic Alaska pick made for this purpose.  Pete Seeger's first book has a diagram showing a metal finger pick worn backward with the pick looking very straight.

blockader - Posted - 01/04/2012:  07:58:19

i broke my middle finger nail clearing land last thursday and was supposed to play with some folks for a party on saturday. so i made a run to a music shop and got some dunlop plastic picks. all they had was large, which was way too small for me so i had to heat it in  boiling water and reform it. then just bent, clipped, and sanded the "nail" part and never missed a beat. i play with both fingers and never get quite as much sound out of my middle as i do my index until trying the pick. the pick does screw up my cluck though. it also flew off during an especially spirited take on old time sally ann but i had some electrical tape in my pocket and that shored it up for the rest of the night.

personally, i think when my nail grows back out i'll discontinue use of the pick but if it you need it to get a clear sound you are in good company.

-justin

Don Shriner - Posted - 01/04/2012:  09:40:35

I too wear a metal finger pick, slightly modified with pliers, to play when my own finger nail is broken or otherwise out of commission.
I much prefer to play with my nail au natural, but I find it extremely annoying when I play piano. The metal finger pick is a bit like taping a golf club on your finger and it sometimes gets hooked on the recovery up stroke making what I call "Goose Honks". I also use ping pong balls which I like, but with tape and adjusting, it's a pain. I don't really like the metal on metal sound of the metal pick or the incidental contact with the head that I seem to be more inclined to do with a pick, however, varying the angle of attack helps to minimize the scraping sound, as far as head contact, Some people don't mind it but,.........., To each his own on that point.

Nothing beats your fingernail,

Paul R - Posted - 01/04/2012:  11:19:56

I started out with a backwards metal fingerpick, flattened, based on Pete Seeger's advice, in the early seventies. I used a thumb pick, a regular fingerpick on the index finger, and the backwards one on the middle finger. It worked for me then, but, not long after, when I subscribed to the clawhammer police method, I went to bare fingernails. When I took up the banjo again recently, I split the nail on my middle finger. I dug out the old pick, but it didn't feel right, so I trained my index finger. Now I have two bare fingernails that I can use. Still, I'm thinking about using the Seeger setup for two-finger-thumb-lead swicthing to clawhammer and back. Whatever works for you ...

Mirek Patek - Posted - 01/04/2012:  13:49:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul R

I started out with a backwards metal fingerpick, flattened, based on Pete Seeger's advice, in the early seventies. I used a thumb pick, a regular fingerpick on the index finger, and the backwards one on the middle finger. It worked for me then, but, not long after, when I subscribed to the clawhammer police method, I went to bare fingernails. When I took up the banjo again recently, I split the nail on my middle finger. I dug out the old pick, but it didn't feel right, so I trained my index finger. Now I have two bare fingernails that I can use. Still, I'm thinking about using the Seeger setup for two-finger-thumb-lead switching to clawhammer and back. Whatever works for you ...

---

I use a thumb pick, a regular fingerpicks on the index and middle fingers, and the backwards one on the ring finger.

Mirek

Banjamin - Posted - 01/04/2012:  17:07:07

Thanks very much all. There's a lot to be said for this kind of forum, really glad I found this site.

farmer bob - Posted - 01/05/2012:  06:38:16

I use a backward Dunlop .025 on my middle finger more often than not. I developed a style that combines clawhammer with a strum. The strum is never picked instead I let the pick glide over the top of the strings. Reverse Dunlops have just the right  rounded shape to make it sound good. At least to me. You can hear this style on my Fly Around mp3.... BEWARE you run the embarrassing risk of hooking the strings with this pick arrangement. Nothing better than real finger nails but not all of us have the lifestyle that allows us to maintain good nails ..Bob.

whyteman - Posted - 01/06/2012:  00:58:34

For the record, I tried a Hooks thimble and did not get along with it at all. I found it awkward, bulky and cumbersome to use. However, most people who try them seem to be hooked.

I agree with farmer Bob as I too prefer the Dunlop picks. Curiously, I only like the nickle plated ones, not the brass. And I have guage preferences as well.

Don

Banjer Joe - Posted - 01/18/2012:  19:48:30

I've been having problems with my frailing nail(s) since beginning to play clawhammer. They would wear down very quickly until the frailing fingers got too sore for playing. My natural nails also made a "mushy" or muddy sound. It was difficult to get clear noting sounds.

I tried cutting down a metal finger pick (installed backwards of course) but really didn't like the metallic sound.

I eventually tried having acrylic nails "installed" at the nail salon but this too, eventually chips off after many weeks of playing. And because the operator roughs the top of the nail - read as sanding it with a Dremel tool - the remaining nail is even thinner than when I started so have to wait until it grows out, etc. It's a tough cycle.

And then I went to oldwoodchuckb's video on using plastic finger picks. Wow! I bought 3 of these picks at a local guitar store and immediately cut one down as per Tony's suggestions. The first few hours were both trial and error in determining how long to make them. And now after one day of off and on playing I can really hit the string I intended at some speed!

There is a down side. Because the sound is so defined or clear and NOT "muddy," I now have to clean up my playing. This will improve my playing a bunch!

So, thanks to Tony for Rocket Science Banjo and now this nail suggestion.

hdplayer - Posted - 01/21/2012:  18:23:44

Riley Baugus is making some similar altered picks for me. But I'm so new to playing I don't know if I'll need them. I thought it would be good to have them just in case since I tend to be quite active outdoors and my hands take a beating sometimes. Glad to hear it's an accepted practice, especially when the nail is worn.

I'll echo Banjamin in saying that I'm glad I to be part of the BHO community. You folks offer a wealth of information that I'd otherwise miss by not having a regular teacher. So thanks!

hdplayer - Posted - 01/22/2012:  12:42:17

Here are the picks made for me by Riley Baugus. He also makes them in traditional colors, but I wanted "girlie" ones and he did a great job.

Picks by Riley Baugus

hayesdt - Posted - 01/22/2012:  14:30:51

While I prefer not to wear any type of pick for clawhammer, there are two situations where I frequently use a turned-around fingerpick on my middle finger:  1.  When I've broken / damaged my middle finger nail.  and 2. When I'm playing in a jam that has a lot of players (e.g., 12-15) and I want more volume than would normally be necessary when playing with only 3-4 players.

Diablito - Posted - 01/23/2012:  10:06:47

I came across these recently and bought one. I haven't really used it yet. i prefer to use my own nail, but i have cut it too short a couple of times and would like to have something as a "backup". was that pun? lol
fredkellypicks.com/freedom-pick.html

I like how it covers the whole finger tip. some of the others with bands get uncomfortable. the guy i bought them from said you can also dip them in hot water to help get them to the desired shape.

Steve Donnelly - Posted - 01/23/2012:  18:37:28

 I usually use scotch tape but some times, an Atomic pick.

janetdavismusic.com/finpiks.html

tkelsey - Posted - 01/23/2012:  20:15:02

Would a brass or plastic pick tear up nylglut?

deuceswilde - Posted - 02/03/2012:  10:37:54

I just spotted this.

I can only speak for the thimbles that I make, and the answer is no.  They will not tear up nylon. 

Mine are copied from original banjo thimbles.  That is significant because at the time that the originals were in common use, gut was the preferred strings.

I've shipped my thimbles all over the world and they are in use by top players.  I use one every time I play in a "striking" style and I only play on gut and nylon.

Gut will wear, fray, and break, but in my personal experience, using one of my thimbles lessens the wear where one plays at the bridge than just the fingernail.  I polish each one with a buffing wheel to make sure that the end is smooth.

The true test of wear on gut and nylon was at the two Early Banjo Gatherings I've attended in MD with a barn full of gut/nylon strung banjoists playing non stop.  Many were using the thimbles I make, no one had any problems. 

I would imagine that making do with with a modified Hawaiian guitar pick worn backwards would also not cause damage as long as the edge is smoothed out and rounded off.

quote:

---

Originally posted by tkelsey

Would a brass or plastic pick tear up nylglut?

---

Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 02/03/2012:  12:34:52

I use Joel Hooks Thimbles when my nails are out of commission. Here are some plastic clawhammer picks which I have used.

Mutha

Click on pictures to enlarge

Edited by - Pluckin Mutha on 02/03/2012 12:35:25

Plastic Clawhammer Pick

Plastic Clawhammer Pick

tonehead - Posted - 02/04/2012:  12:34:57

 I do that from time to time .. mainly for a change of tone.   Fun stuff..

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/04/2012:  16:00:50

I've used plastic dunlops and Freedoms on nylon strings without problems. I never use metal picks now but I used to 2 finger pick my classical guitar with a metal finger pick.

As to paying to have Dunlop (or similar) plastic picks cut down for you --- Don't. It is a very simple operation done with scissors and an emery board. Nothing to it. Seriously. In fact if you buy a half dozen picks and cut each one to a different length you can even test them out and find out what length and shape you like best. Then future batches will all be made expressly for your fingers.

deuceswilde - Posted - 02/04/2012:  20:34:45

People charge for cutting down plastic picks? I did not even know that was a thing.

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

I've used plastic dunlops and Freedoms on nylon strings without problems. I never use metal picks now but I used to 2 finger pick my classical guitar with a metal finger pick.

As to paying to have Dunlop (or similar) plastic picks cut down for you --- Don't. It is a very simple operation done with scissors and an emery board. Nothing to it. Seriously. In fact if you buy a half dozen picks and cut each one to a different length you can even test them out and find out what length and shape you like best. Then future batches will all be made expressly for your fingers.

---