Pete Wernick - Posted - 12/20/2011:  16:58:37

Thanks to the diligence of Brian Ford, John Lawless and a few previous efforts, there now exists a virtually complete tab archive of everything I've ever recorded... since the first Country Cooking LP, 1971. That's 15+  albums' worth, so maybe 200+ solos. Hot Rize, Flexigrass/Live 5/ 2 solo albums, Jeff White, Chris Thile, Pete & Joan, Long Road Home albums, and more.

Printed, it make a volume of at least 400 pages, as a guess. That would have to be pretty pricey to print, or could maybe be done in pieces. I wonder if people would prefer the option to download individual tabs online cafeteria style, maybe with special deals for groupings by album or type of playing. Or would people like a printed copy of 24 or 40 pages at a time, grouped by ...?

Anyone out there who'd be a possible customer, in any of the above formats? What way of getting them would work best for you? Would you be likely to buy a print collection, if available in different chunks?

If you just choose to make up your own stuff, or get ideas from hearing other people, that's what I do. But tabs are sometimes a good way to learn specific things.

Anyone care to comment?

Pete

timacn - Posted - 12/20/2011:  17:35:54

Hi Pete.

I'd go for either the ability to download individual tabs or the ability to purchase targeted collections of songs.

Tim McNamara

Lancaster, PA

timacn - Posted - 12/20/2011:  17:36:13

Hi Pete.

I'd go for either the ability to download individual tabs or the ability to purchase targeted collections of songs.

Tim McNamara

Lancaster, PA

RayD - Posted - 12/20/2011:  17:51:56

Pete,

Does it have to be one or the other? Why not a hybrid - album collections, a la carte selections....

Just thinking out loud.

Cheers,

RayD

scribefit - Posted - 12/20/2011:  18:06:54

tabledit format with midi gets my vote. Merry Christmas!

Tim13 - Posted - 12/20/2011:  18:12:12

If I were in the market for this, I'd want several options.

1)  Individual downloadable tabs al carte, with discounts for volume purchases (ie for every X number of tabs purchased at any one time, the price drops by a meaningful percentage.)

2) The ability to purchase the individual .MP3 for each tab as well.

3) Complete MP3 album with associated tabs with a price break for buying the whole album/tab set.

I think the more options you give people, the wider sales net you're casting.  I personally HATE being forced to buy stuff I don't want, and will never use, just to get a few things I do want.  Forcing a bundle purchase for anything is kind of strong arm tactic, and distasteful to a consumer.  Everything should be available for individual purchase a the very least.  Bundles and groupings on top of the ala carte is then just an option, and doesn't force a purchase of unwanted material.

Tim

kmwaters - Posted - 12/20/2011:  18:14:13

Pete:  Not sure if you have the songs categorized in any way, but a CD with the tabs makes sense to me.  Maybe a couple of choices, like ALL song CD, and then smaller CD's with a given category whether it's slow vs. fast, new vs. old, classic bluegrass vs. progressive and jazzy, and so on.  Maybe even one wih Christmas and Patriotic - whatever makes sense as you look over the complete collection.  Thanks.  Sounds very interesting that you are doing this in some fashion before long.

The download thing isn't a bad idea, but I have always found them to be rather expensive when you buy a la carte.  At least from the sites I have visited.  Seems like tabs are either free or pricey, and very little in between unless you get a book of them.  Example - Jack Hatfield's Scruggs Corner is a buy when you look at what it contains. 

Happy Holidays - always admired your playing and I have your first print (I think) of Bluegrass Banjo that I will guess I bought back in the late 60's or sometime in the 70's.  Still go back to it every now and then.  My favorite line in the book is "practicing without picks is like practicing the golf swing without a club".  Great analogy, and I am a golfer.  So I can really relate!!  Stay well.

timifill - Posted - 12/20/2011:  19:24:26

I like the idea of song-by-song purchasing ability.

Pete Wernick - Posted - 12/20/2011:  23:04:58

Thanks everybody for the ideas, and I hope more people will chime in.

It's obvious why people would want a recorded source to go with the tabs, so I guess there could be links on my web site for buying a track from iTunes or whatever. Most of the stuff is on Spotify, and virtually all will be up when Rounder's catalog gets added.

I can see it will make sense to have all the tabs available for purchase, cafeteria style, and then have various package deals.

I'm wondering whether there's any sense at all in putting out an actual book... or are those just getting too passe??

I do have an idea of a selection or two of tabs, like favorite breaks or examples of a certain kind of playing. Anybody think they might buy a book? If so, what would you want in a $15 or $20 book?

Pete

JMalmsteen - Posted - 12/21/2011:  01:38:49

Tabs plus the mp3s would be great or a tabledit version would help.
-Jen

bjohio - Posted - 12/21/2011:  03:10:39

Pete,

I agree with you, that a 400+ page book would be prohibitively expensive and probably limit your overall sales.  After reading the post so far, I like the idea of a data CD-ROM containing all of your works in PDF form.  While PDF's are not as musically friendly as TabEdit files, they are a much more universally accepted format.  I would think that this would generate a higher profit margin (CDs being cheaper to produce than publishing and printing a book?).  You could price it lower than a 400+ page book but higher than individual downloads.  The user could print only the pages they need.  Giving the user all of your works will encourage the user to explore areas of your catalog they may not have discovered by using a individual download format.  As a perk for buying the CD-ROM of collected works, you could include a few choice MP3's on the disk or perhaps offer a "coupon" for discounted downloads on select songs from iTunes.

Gook luck!  Whatever the format, I hope it comes to fruition.

O.D. - Posted - 12/21/2011:  04:47:49

I like the idea of downloadable  complete songs( lead and back up) with accurate tabs  as a single purchase.

 Grouping songs that   employ a particular style of back up ,or rhythm. or related techniques would be a good idea as well.

 I would  certainly be interested  as Ive spent many hours studying Pete's playing. It would be nice to have an accurate referance.

 Regards, O.D.

crishergirl - Posted - 12/21/2011:  08:30:36

Pete wrote:

"I'm wondering whether there's any sense at all in putting out an actual book... or are those just getting too passe??
I do have an idea of a selection or two of tabs, like favorite breaks or examples of a certain kind of playing. Anybody think they might buy a book? If so, what would you want in a $15 or $20 book?"

My humble opinion on this matter is that I like the idea of a collection of books based on each CD that you have recorded. I'm not sure how the publishing industry works, but I suppose for marketing purposes (to have the most successful sale of "books") you may consider only doing the collections of song tabs based only on your most popular CD's. The large collection I would not purchase because I know that in my lifetime I could never accomplish the task of learning all of your music. The audience that would appreciate such a huge collection would most likely be narrow, thus individual books I think are in order based on individual CD's.

As to what should be IN the books, I like the idea of the complete song, not just the important licks.

On the other hand, I have seen collections online of tablature that can be purchased one by one, like an a la carte menu. Jack Hatfield does that sort of thing on his web site. Here's the link to his collection of tabs: hatfieldmusic.com/page2.html

Bobbie Dundas

Corwyn - Posted - 12/21/2011:  09:35:52

I think the ability to pick by song would be the most useful to me.  It would also be nice to have multiple formats, with some easy way to always get the same format(s).  By all means a MP3 should be available!

If you are going to do PDF, can I recommend Lilypond to do the typesetting.  It really produces the nicest output to my eye.  PDF are tricky though, as some people will want traditional music notation, some tablature, some both.  A format like lilypond or tabledit will let the individual user choose the paper format they like best.

Thank you kindly for doing this; there isn't enough music available in notation form.

minstrelmike - Posted - 12/21/2011:  09:46:34

I would give the tab away and try to sell songs individually (or vice versa but then the whole band is affected).

At least talk to some web marketers and investigate some other ideas.

Maybe have the tabs available free off your web site for registered guests (builds up a mailing list) and 99-cent downloads of currently available songs (Hot Rize) along with $5 album downloads of old Country Cooking stuff.

Printed books seem more passe every day and useful musical books need to lay open well which means expensive spiral binding.

In fact, if you came out with a spiral-bound 2nd edition of Bluegrass Songbook, I would probably buy several for friends and students but the current perfect-bound one is quite a bit harder to use.

But since the tab is pretty much useless (for beginners) without the music and they go together like razors and razor blades, you might want to consider selling only one and using the other as a teaser.

sdfarris - Posted - 12/21/2011:  09:51:32

There are lots of new options in the e-publishing area. You could offer e-books on Amazon and adjust the pricing for individual volumes or complete sets. I agree that a universal digital format such as PDF or EPUB might have more appeal that a proprietary tab-specific software.

Once the book(s) are in a digital format, there are options to set up a print on demand service for those who prefer actual paper, and save you the cost of pre-printing and keeping inventory. I don't have any specific recommendations for sources, but Google is your friend.

Right now, I'm experimenting with converting my vast collection of dusty instructional books, BNL back issues, and my complete collection of Frets magazine to PDF, and possibly embedding hyperlinks to relevant MP3 sound clips within the PDF files. My ultimate goal is to reduce 6+ linear feet of shelf space down to an inexpensive 8" electronic tablet to keep in my banjo case.

davidtoc - Posted - 12/21/2011:  18:23:18

I was pretty much going to suggest what Sam suggested.  There's not much risk in creating an e-book on blurb.com that people can print on demand.  None of those pesky up-front printing costs or issues with storing large press runs, and you can set your own price.  One of the biggest advantages of this is you can pretty easily create a variety of books and not have to worry if there doesn't end up being much demand for it. 

I like books rather than individual tabs because I often end up discovering new songs when I see them in a book, whereas if i only bought the tabs I wanted, I might never have known those other songs even existed.

dave

kaybone - Posted - 12/21/2011:  19:36:47

One big giant .pdf file with all the tabs. 

One big giant folder or zip file with all the .mp3 files. in it

Downloading separate files is a big pain in the butt.

I like mp3s because you can stick them in your  ipod, iphone or itouch and keep them near by your banjo without having to fire up your whole computer every time. And you can you use the Amazing Slowdowner software ap with the .mp3s.

Hankon5 - Posted - 12/21/2011:  22:26:26

Pete

Good to hear from you. You are responsible for getting me into Bluegrass and Banjo years ago with you MUSIC MINUS ONE album from your COUNTRY COOKIN days.
I agree with Dave. It would be awesome to be able to handle all that music knowlege. GREAT idea Pete!

Hank

Pete Wernick - Posted - 12/21/2011:  23:22:31

I am intrigued by the possibilities here. Individually chosen tabs, with the option to buy grouped in discounted bundles looks pretty sensible. I'm a bit scared of the "big giant pdf of all the tabs". That sounds like an invitation to copy!

Folks, I can't just directly sell mp3s of all the cuts I'm on. Those are mostly owned by record labels, mostly Rounder and Sugar Hill. On my web site in the tab area I could put the links to buy or stream music cuts for listening. I can see how people with Slowdowner would prefer to download an mp3.

Guess I'll check blurb.com to get acquainted with printed options. My old tab books of 40 or so pages were just stapled in the middle along the spine, so they lay flat easily. A 40-page book could cover a lot of ground tab-wise, and still fit OK in a banjo case.

For converting my Bluegrass Songbook or Bluegrass Banjo book to spiratl binding, go to Kinko's. Last I heard they do it for $4, and they do a nice job. Makes a great semi-homemade gift!

Thanks everyone for your ideas. I'm going to use some of them! More ideas welcome.

Pete

Gymbal31 - Posted - 12/22/2011:  05:45:07

Just writing from experience.

I've had the book of "Scruggs Corner" tabs by Jack Hatfield for about a year now and I've gotten through a 1/4 of it, maybe 1/3.  I have Doug Dillard's book and have only learned three of the tabs from that.  The J.D. Crowe books have been highly recommended and I would love to have them, but I know they will mostly just sit on the shelf.

I'd be willing to pay for individual tab downloads, knowing they are quality arrangements.  PDF's and links to someplace to buy the recordings would be a good way to do it.

BobbyC. - Posted - 12/22/2011:  08:04:48

Alan Munde does something similar on his site, he includes snippets of the song (the particular banjo solos or endings that go with the tab, not the entire song) in an mp3 along with a pdf of the tab.

Using tabledit files would eliminate the need for the mp3 since you can play the tab using midi.

I would love to see this any whatever format, single songs, groups etc...

answerguru - Posted - 12/22/2011:  13:50:13

My $0.02:

Regarding file formats: Individual PDFs and tab files make the most sense to me.

Regarding people pirating stuff, my answer is simple. Price it such that it's more of a hassle to find and download it, rather than just pay you x dollars for the content. The comedian Louis CK just did this with a live performance; he cut out the middleman, sold it online for a price that was low enough that people didn't want to be bothered with pirating it...my understanding is that he did quite well with it.

Remember, no matter *what* you do, someone will pirate the content. Just make the alternative more appealing.

I also think that having package deals (ie bulk discount) is the way to go.

RayD - Posted - 12/22/2011:  14:53:06

Pete,

A few posts back you mentioned something about tabs of favorite breaks, etc. I'm also very interested in seeing the structure of some back up licks. Like you did with your DVD/tab book that included Nelly Kane.

Cheers,
RayD

MiG-19 - Posted - 12/22/2011:  16:24:36

Pete,

Just wanted to thank you for all you do, and say Merry Christmas.