GhostChile - Posted - 12/03/2011:  19:40:41

Hi all! I have decided to start using nylon fishing line for strings. I am using all Trilene Big Game. 20# for 1st n 5th strings. 30# for 2nd. 40# for 3rd and 50# for the 4th string. And thx to Mike Halloran I got a new waverly tailpiece! So I was tuning them up, dang u gotta turn n turn those tuners! And after stretching em out and playing had to constantly retune. How long b4 they set? Lot longer than steel, I know that. And I am very close to that sound I am looking for!
My 2nd question is I need a little more bass, it is a little high. Would that be the bridge? I am using a 5/8" grover ebony top with inserts.

f#dead - Posted - 12/03/2011:  19:51:58

Hey Eddie, my experience w/ fishline, it took about a week to stretch.  That's picking up the banjo each day, tune, play a tune or two, retune.  You can also let off the pressure, pull all that wrapped line through the tuning peg and tighten again.  That will reduce the lump of line around the peg.  Nylguts take a few days less.  ymmv

The string weights I chose were something like yours.  I liked the tone of my fishline experiments.  Sometimes the fifth string would whistle.  And yes, the unwound bass string wasn't as bassy.  I'm not sure how to fix that.  Have fun.

Tinfoot - Posted - 12/03/2011:  19:53:15

Heh, I only have one nylon instrument, a lute guitar ... and it took least a week (although you can speed it up by "pulling" on the strings). And when you say bass, you mean an overall deeper sound (as its too twinkly at the moment)?

But I don't know anything about using nylon fishing lines. However, I do know over in the Clawhammer forum, there are lotsa folks with low tuned minstrel banjos using fishing lines.

GhostChile - Posted - 12/03/2011:  20:02:16

Ok so a week. And yes looking for a little more overall bass. It is a bit twinkly or bright right now, but it has that old timey sound I like. If you have heard some old Country Gentlemen songs, that's what I am tring to get as close to as I can get. Just need some bass, like Flavor Flav y'all?

Quartermaster James - Posted - 12/03/2011:  21:02:36

I'm using Trilene 30-60 on one of mine.

I'd say it was closer to two weeks, but maybe wasn't playing as much as others. I did make a point of tuning daily, however.

The good news is: once they settle, they last forever.

Tinfoot - Posted - 12/04/2011:  04:17:50

Flava Flav here, bringing a bit bump n' plunk, bluegrass bagging witha ole time bling, fling yur pardner round, picking pure hot crib sound.

Aside from heavier gauges, changing to a Fyberskin or Renaissance head would give you a deeper, mellower response. That and playing over the 19th fret. ;) I am honestly not sure if a bridge would directly affect bringing the tone down... I've only swapped bridges to improve string response and clarity.

rudy - Posted - 12/04/2011:  04:57:11

I use Nylguts and pre-stretch when installing, so they settle down after a couple days.  I played a bit with Labella nylons when I first used synthetics, but found them seriously lacking in tone, bass included.  A wound fourth would improve that, as in putting a classical guitar string on for a fourth string.  When I did a bunch of research trying to find suitable nylon I found many recommendations for fluorocarbon fishing line over standard nylon.  Seagaur was the most recommended brand among the fishing line crowd.

For synthetic use, I've seen  many recommend a LIGHT un-topped (preferably two footed) bridge to bring out the bass and increase the volume.  I'm sure some minstrel players may see this and respond.  You could post your question over at the Minstrel users group also.

Fathand - Posted - 12/04/2011:  06:02:18

I always tune up an extra fret higher at first to help pre stretch them. I did a Baritone uke a while back and swear it took 2 weeks of retuning every day

What kind of banjo are you playing that you are using fishing line? Nylgut Banjo Strings are like $6.00 a set and will sound far better than fishing line

GhostChile - Posted - 12/04/2011:  15:30:38

Fathand, I just have my one banjo. J Reynolds JR 400. I had been busting steel strings. Found out 2 things. I had a burr in a tuner hole. And when I was keeping some tension on after hooking on tailpiece I was inadvertently kinking the string so when I stretched it tuning it broke. So I was out of strings and near a Cabelas so I got fishing line. It is cheaper and til I get all setup done, who cares if I pop one. Not out 5 or 6 buks for a set I can't use.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 12/04/2011:  16:38:26

Here's the 'standard procedure' for getting nylon/nylgut strings to take a 'set' quickly:

1. Mount the strings and get them up to tune.

2. Lay the banjo in your lap, face up.

3. One string at a time, grab the string with L/H about 1/3 of the way from nut to bridge. Same with the R/H, 1/3 from bridge to nut (it doesn't have to be exact).

4. Push/pull the string into a "Z" shape, stretching the string as much as you dare. After you've broken a few 1st or 5th strings, you'll know how much to stretch. With some nylon, you may not break the string before it cuts your fingers...you'll probably stop before that happens. Probably. 

5. Retune. Repeat 3-4 for each string...and then repeat again. And again. And again. With nylgut, you may want to re-wrap the tuners after the this first session. Nylgut stretches a lot! Be careful about getting too aggressive though, heat build up during the stretching process can damage the string and weaken it, esp at pinch points like the nut, bridge, tailpiece and tuners.

I do this several times the first day and the strings will hold tune for an entire song...maybe 10 min. Do the same thing the next day, it will hold tune longer. By the third day it should be holding tune for a good while. With trilene, you may be done sooner. Nylon responds very well to this process.

BTW, try this with steel strings too. This is how a pro will restring quickly during a gig. Tune and stretch, tune and stretch. With steels, they're done in just few stretches. (Thank you, Ned Lubereki for the great stringing lesson all those years ago).

GhostChile - Posted - 12/04/2011:  17:24:16

Ok, thx trapdoor2! I retuned tonite and just did some rolls and chord changes. I will say this, these fishing line strings are a TON EASIER on getting a clear note!

GhostChile - Posted - 12/04/2011:  18:26:30

And tinfoot. THAT WAS HILARIOUS! Pure crib sound. Pass me the mountain dew dew dew.....

GhostChile - Posted - 12/05/2011:  17:03:40

And I love Ned Luberecki! I listen to him every sunday on sirius bluegrass junction. Gives his banjo lesson!

bassman - Posted - 12/06/2011:  09:10:27

Hey GhostChile (can I call you Bhut, or would you prefer Mr. Jolokia?), there are a lot of factors affecting bass response.  There's tons of info in the archives, but two things, real quick:

-different bridge: the ones with plastic inserts like you have are about as bright as you can get.  I like the 5-foot/4-arch minstrel bridges for nylon, myself, and use one on my gourd banjo, but even a standard ebony-topped Grover without inserts should help tone down the brightness.  

-adjust head tension: common knowledge says looser=deeper, but that's not always the case.  There's a sweet spot you'll have to look for, but that's part of the fun.

Hope that helps.

-Chris

mikehalloran - Posted - 12/06/2011:  15:50:36

If you are looking for more bass, I would think a solid maple bridge would do the trick. Without an ebony cap, sustain will take a minor hit but is that an issue? In any case, I am with Chris, lose the inserts.

Edited by - mikehalloran on 12/06/2011 15:52:01

GhostChile - Posted - 12/06/2011:  17:39:15

Sustain not an issue. I have contacted one of the bridge builders here on the HO. Douglas New out of Wappapelo, MO. Gonna get a maple untopped spillway bridge from him AFTER the holidays! Lol

GhostChile - Posted - 12/06/2011:  17:42:33

Sorry, Donald New. My fon won't let me edit