CGDA - Posted - 11/26/2011:  08:43:52

When I was  younger sometimes I used to scrape my guitar with turtle picks. Albeit it was not a crime at the time ('50s), it ended up with my playing with plastic ones being the "biologic" a little expensive and  difficult to find. I quickly forgot  the sound of those plectrums. 2 years ago a friend allowed me to test one of his turtle picks...wow, what a different sound !  Much better than the best quality plastics. I love tortoises and turtles and I don't want they are killed to make picks, but, damn it all, do they ever die for a natural cause and in this case, why do not use their carapace ? Does anybody know if turtle picks are available somewhere?

Marco

beegee - Posted - 11/26/2011:  09:49:06

I used my last dozen years ago. I don't know where you can get them. I don't know all the laws regarding buying and selling tortoise items. Some folks are buying fake (celluloid)old tortoise stuff on ebay and slicing it into picks. Real tortoise shell is not allowed on ebay . You may occasionally find an old tortosis picture frame at a flea market, but you nee to check the possession and sale laws. There are some really good synthetics  and horn picks that come close to real tortoise .close is the operative word.

Edited by - beegee on 11/26/2011 09:52:21

CGDA - Posted - 11/26/2011:  11:23:13

quote:

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Originally posted by beegee

I used my last dozen years ago. I don't know where you can get them. I don't know all the laws regarding buying and selling tortoise items. Some folks are buying fake (celluloid)old tortoise stuff on ebay and slicing it into picks. Real tortoise shell is not allowed on ebay . You may occasionally find an old tortosis picture frame at a flea market, but you nee to check the possession and sale laws. There are some really good synthetics  and horn picks that come close to real tortoise .close is the operative word.

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Thank you for your answer, anyway nothing can rivalling the tortoise picks, IMO. It's not only a question involving the sound brightness but also their flexibility and  their stress resistance.

Tinfoot - Posted - 11/26/2011:  22:40:07

My mother has an old, fully intact tortoise shell - Ya, she had mentioned she was rejected by eBay years back when she tried to sell it. Now when I looked at that thing, and of course when I read this... the same question arises: how would one go about making picks out of the shell? I can't imagine a pick press being suitable... It's pretty ancient but still solid without any sign of degradation.

CGDA - Posted - 11/27/2011:  02:50:08

quote:

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Originally posted by Tinfoot

My mother has an old, fully intact tortoise shell - Ya, she had mentioned she was rejected by eBay years back when she tried to sell it. Now when I looked at that thing, and of course when I read this... the same question arises: how would one go about making picks out of the shell? I can't imagine a pick press being suitable... It's pretty ancient but still solid without any sign of degradation.

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I'm pretty sure that a skilled craftsman could easily procure lots of plectrums from a t-shell, but I don't know where to find such a person. I have two picks like that but I don't use them as they are too hard for playing banjo (and so good for an electric guitar).  A sandpaper job could reduce their thickness, but I don't trust  so much in my ability.... ;o)

brewerpaul - Posted - 11/27/2011:  03:50:25

I'd leave that shell alone rather than mess it up trying to make picks.  First of all, it might not even be the right kind of tortoise shell!  I think that picks and decorative tortoise shell items were made from one particular species.  That whole shell is a pretty cool biological specimen.  Plus, there are a TON of great picks out there, and it's a lot of fun testing them out.

Just last night I pulled a handful of picks out of my mando case and played around with them.  One was a pre-ban early '60s vintage genuine tortoise guitar pick.  I love it on my acoustic guitar but this particular one is too thin for mandolin and produces a correspondingly thin tone.  What I found interesting was that a few picks that I formerly didn't like I found pretty nice this time around.

Fathand - Posted - 11/27/2011:  09:05:33

I bought a tortoise shell pic in the early 80's, was still legal here at the time (not now). It was one of those large 3 cornered type. I really liked it, then it went missing. I found it when I was fixing the clothes dryer  and it had been blistered and ruined by the heat.

I now use Dunlop Tortex pics which I find to be a reasonable approximation but not quite the same.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/27/2011:  17:30:11

Marco,

I do totally agree - nothing beats (or did beat - se below) the genuine turtle shell picks - I used entirely these for appr. 30 years - even many years after they were "banned" - I was lucky buying the remaining and well hidden stock at a small local music store back in the 80s.

Early 90s my stock had however diminished very much – these picks do wear easily - I sanded and polished a number every week - they do also break easily - so I had to find a substitution. I ended up with a somewhat rare celluloid pick, that I used for the next 10 years. Nice performance and feel – far better than nylon etc. - however absolutely not close to my oldies.

But then – 6-7 years ago I discovered the newly invented Red Bear picks - they are made of a polymerized animal protein with physical properties very close to those of genuine turtle shell - it was like coming home for me.

I tried various shapes, gauges and bevels for some years – after a while I found out my favorite specs - I´ve since had a number of picks custom manufactured and engraved - they are very costly, so my "name" is on most of them - in case that I´ll drop one at stage. Which by the way rarely happens.

Opposite genuine turtle shell these picks are extremely wear resistant - I do sand/polish them a little only once or twice per year - so in fact I do only need a few examples. I do however have plenty - with same shape and bevels - however with gauges varying between 1.2 and 1.5 mm.

I use the lighter examples for "soft" banjos and my tenor guitar - however my soloist banjos do call for the most heavy examples.

But - these picks are not for players at an entry or intermediate level - pardon me for saying so - they are very demanding regarding picking techniques - very few players can benefit from and exploit them. Even for a very experienced player it takes months/years getting acquainted with them. But once there - there´s no way back - they are addictive and in many ways better than the original turtle shell picks.

Marco - I have an offer for you - if you´ll want to test an example - I´ll send you a new 1.2 mm light gauge example (light for an easier start) - if you don´t like it, just send it back (postage is only appr. 1.5 EUR) - if you want to keep it - well then you´ll have to pay the actual cost of 25 EUR - LOL!

And yes / no - I do only have them in the triangular shape as shown - the at all times #1 choice for 4-string banjo players. The three tips gives you a better wear resistance - and the triangular shape allows several different pick grips - as used by most past and present top-players.

If interested - do mail me your address off-line.

Kind regards

Polle

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 11/27/2011 17:44:48

CGDA - Posted - 11/27/2011:  22:37:34

quote:

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Originally posted by Polle Flaunoe

 

Marco,

I do totally agree - nothing beats (or did beat - se below) the genuine turtle shell picks - I used entirely these for appr. 30 years - even many years after they were "banned" - I was lucky buying the remaining and well hidden stock at a small local music store back in the 80s.

Early 90s my stock had however diminished very much – these picks do wear easily - I sanded and polished a number every week - they do also break easily - so I had to find a substitution. I ended up with a somewhat rare celluloid pick, that I used for the next 10 years. Nice performance and feel – far better than nylon etc. - however absolutely not close to my oldies.

But then – 6-7 years ago I discovered the newly invented Red Bear picks - they are made of a polymerized animal protein with physical properties very close to those of genuine turtle shell - it was like coming home for me.

I tried various shapes, gauges and bevels for some years – after a while I found out my favorite specs - I´ve since had a number of picks custom manufactured and engraved - they are very costly, so my "name" is on most of them - in case that I´ll drop one at stage. Which by the way rarely happens.

Opposite genuine turtle shell these picks are extremely wear resistant - I do sand/polish them a little only once or twice per year - so in fact I do only need a few examples. I do however have plenty - with same shape and bevels - however with gauges varying between 1.2 and 1.5 mm.

I use the lighter examples for "soft" banjos and my tenor guitar - however my soloist banjos do call for the most heavy examples.

But - these picks are not for players at an entry or intermediate level - pardon me for saying so - they are very demanding regarding picking techniques - very few players can benefit from and exploit them. Even for a very experienced player it takes months/years getting acquainted with them. But once there - there´s no way back - they are addictive and in many ways better than the original turtle shell picks.

Marco - I have an offer for you - if you´ll want to test an example - I´ll send you a new 1.2 mm light gauge example (light for an easier start) - if you don´t like it, just send it back (postage is only appr. 1.5 EUR) - if you want to keep it - well then you´ll have to pay the actual cost of 25 EUR - LOL!

And yes / no - I do only have them in the triangular shape as shown - the at all times #1 choice for 4-string banjo players. The three tips gives you a better wear resistance - and the triangular shape allows several different pick grips - as used by most past and present top-players.

If interested - do mail me your address off-line.

Kind regards

Polle

 

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Polle,

I'm interested in buying and testing one of your polymerized picks. I think that the triangular 1,2 mm light gauge is the one I need. Please, how can I contact you off-line ?

All the Best.

Marco

All the Best

RUBY2 - Posted - 11/28/2011:  00:20:09

Polle

That's ever so kind o you to help Marco out like that.
What a star you are :-)

Richard

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/28/2011:  02:20:46

Marco,

Click on my avatar and afterwards at the link "Send a private message" - or maybe better mail me directly at polle@acoustudio.dk

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 11/28/2011 02:21:59

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/28/2011:  05:24:14

Marco,

You´ve got mail - plus a custom pick is on its way for you to test.

Do give it a lot of tries - for minimum a month or so - I guess, that many members here will appreciate an additional opinion regarding these very special picks.

As mentioned above - these picks put up great demands for your right hand techniques - however they can be equally rewarding, once / if acquainted.

Polle

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 11/28/2011 05:31:01

Tinfoot - Posted - 11/28/2011:  13:55:49

Yes, do share your experiences, Marco!

My own pick control is still atrocious, but I do enjoy reading about such specialty tools in use. ;)

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/28/2011:  15:45:08

Guys,

FYI - for heavy gauge (> 1 mm) picks as mentioned above the usual pick grip as used and recommended by many players - thumb pad against side of a bended index finger - is not especially suited - this grip is too stiff.

The flexibility will have to come from your grip mostly - as these picks are very stiff - a 2- or 3-finger grip using only your finger pads will provide the sufficient flexibility.

I do myself use 4-5 different grips for these picks - depending on what´s to be played and how - I do constantly shift between these. My favorite grip is as shown below - thumb pad against pad of middle finger plus pad of the index finger against a corner / edge:

Polle

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 11/28/2011 15:45:48

Tinfoot - Posted - 11/28/2011:  16:38:17

Whao! I just tried that "favorite" grip of yours, Polle... and huge volume increase, crisper sound, and a feeling of great control. Not kidding at all. o.o   I have been using the "usual" grip with Davas (they purport to allow you to change the stiffness of the pick depending where you hold them)... but with your grip there, it really is popping!



 

Edited by - Tinfoot on 11/28/2011 16:41:22

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/28/2011:  17:00:29

Tinfoot (Oh, do I hate addressing anonymous persons?),

Do also try another 3-finger grip - thumb pad against index finger pad plus pad of middle finger against a corner / edge.

Basically you are these ways holding the pick with two finger pads only - the third finger against a corner / edge does first of all prevent the pick from rotating.

And yes - correct observation by you - these grips for heavy picks give a fantastic dynamics control, best possible and fastest string attack, crisp yet absolutely clear and non-colored sound etc. etc.  A pity, that so many otherwise brilliant 4-string players do still believe, that the flexibility needed will have to come from the pick and not the grips(s)!

Polle