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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Open E Tuning?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/221102

TxBubbaDog - Posted - 11/21/2011:  17:56:15



Anyone know how to achieve open E tuning on  5 string banjo with or without a capo?


Jim Yates - Posted - 11/21/2011:  18:06:35



Never tried it, but I'd think you could raise the 1st and 4th strings to E and the 5th and 3rd to G#, giving you: g#EG#BE



assuming you start with an open G.


steve davis - Posted - 11/21/2011:  18:07:36


The Hartford tuning is open E like G only tuned down with bigger strings.

BanjoSampler - Posted - 11/21/2011:  19:21:06



quote:


Originally posted by Jim Yates




Never tried it, but I'd think you could raise the 1st and 4th strings to E and the 5th and 3rd to G#, giving you: g#EG#BE



assuming you start with an open G.






Yes, that makes sense. You can also tune to open Eb with gEbGBbEb


TxBubbaDog - Posted - 11/22/2011:  01:01:48



Thanks!



I will let y'all know if I get it working.



Hope I don't pop any strings! big



Edited by - TxBubbaDog on 11/22/2011 01:05:38

big bird - Posted - 11/22/2011:  05:37:00



I alway's play open no matter which key I am playing in. Occasionally capo at the 2nd fret and hook the 5th string at the 7th fret when a fiddle plays in A. Try playing open in the key of E, just have to hook the 5th string at the 9th fret., also this is the same when you play in the key of B when playing open.



Big Bird


jcland - Posted - 11/22/2011:  06:17:58



I use 2 banjos in our band and I always keep 1 tuned to open E for quit a few vocal numbers, the other being tuned to normal open G



Open E for me  is simply turning down all 5 strings 3 half steps.  I would advise getting away from light strings as they are harder to keep in tune if you use this tuning.



 



Also try these out:



 



g#BEBE - Oscar Wright's "Dead Man's" E-tuning     



eBEBE - Alternative "Dead Man" E tuning

    

f#BEBE - "Dead Man's" variant

    

bBEBE - "Dead Man's" variant



Go here for an extensive list of tunings:



zeppmusic.com/banjo/aktuning.htm



 



 



 


Ira Gitlin - Posted - 11/22/2011:  07:06:42



The tunings that Jim Yates and BanjoSampler suggest are essentially the same as standard D tuning.



 


TxBubbaDog - Posted - 11/22/2011:  07:21:33



Time for my first "newbie" questions of the day! haha



 



What is the difference of "​Tuning to E" ​ and  "Playing in the key of E" ?



 



​When y'all are listing the individual string tunings, is "Eb" the same as "E#" ?


Fathand - Posted - 11/22/2011:  07:59:25



Open D tuning with capo at 2nd fret and capo or hook the 5th string at 9th fret will give you an E Tuning.


Eb (E flat) is one fret lower than E, There is no such thing as E# (Esharp), one fret higher than E = F.


It is a weird quirk in Western music, B and C share the same relationship. If you look at a Keyboard and see Black keys that appear to be missing it kind of explains it.


The Chromatic scale goes  A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# 


 


quote:


Originally posted by TxBubbaDog




Time for my first "newbie" questions of the day! haha



 



What is the difference of "​Tuning to E" ​ and  "Playing in the key of E" ?



 



​When y'all are listing the individual string tunings, is "Eb" the same as "E#" ?






 


gottasmilealot - Posted - 11/22/2011:  08:46:21



Tune to open D, then capo up two frets.  



A (or F#)  - D - F# - A - D



(Strings 5-4-3-2-1)


TxBubbaDog - Posted - 11/22/2011:  09:37:35



quote:


Originally posted by Fathand




Open D tuning with capo at 2nd fret and capo or hook the 5th string at 9th fret will give you an E Tuning.


Eb (E flat) is one fret lower than E, There is no such thing as E# (Esharp)


The Chromatic scale goes  A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# 





Wonderfully explained! Thank you!


Jim Yates - Posted - 11/22/2011:  10:10:24



quote:


Originally posted by Fathand




Open D tuning with capo at 2nd fret and capo or hook the 5th string at 9th fret will give you an E


 


Tuning.


Eb


(E flat) is one fret lower than E, There is no such thing as E# (Esharp), one fret higher than E =


 


F.


It


is


a weird quirk in Western music, B and C share the same relationship. If you look at a Keyboard and see Black keys that appear to be missing it kind of explains


 


it.


The


Chromatic


scale goes  A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# 


 


quote:


Originally posted by TxBubbaDog





Time for my first "newbie" questions of the day! haha



 



What is the difference of "​Tuning to E" ​ and  "Playing in the key of E" ?



 



​When y'all are listing the individual string tunings, is "Eb" the same as "E#" ?






 






I'm gonna have to read more carefully.  I missed two important words in the original post - "with or" and read it asthough the original poster didn't want to use a capo.  Of course open D tuning capoed up 2 would be the best bet.



 



Tuning to E - You could tune a string so that the note produced when you play it is E or you could tune a banjo to play an E chord when the strings are played open. 



Playing in E means that you are playing in the key of E, no matter how the banjo is tuned.



Fathand said,"(E flat) is one fret lower than E, There is no such thing as E# (Esharp), one fret higher than E "



This is not strictly true.  Notes can have two different correct names.  Eb is also D# ( up a a half step from D or down a half step from E).  F, can also be called E# (up a half step from E).  We don't often use E# and you could probably get by without knowing that it exists, but for the sake of accuracy.  We call two notes that sound the same enharmonics



Enharmonic notes operate at the same frequency (pitch), however, they are "spelled" differently to facilitate some of the functions of music theory.



Edited by - Jim Yates on 11/22/2011 10:21:15

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 11/22/2011:  11:54:08



Quite so, Jim. A C-major chord consists of the notes C, E, and G; a C#-major chord consists of C#, E#, and G#. To a musically savvy reader, C#-E#-G# makes harmonic sense, while C#-F-G# looks like a random jumble.


minstrelmike - Posted - 11/23/2011:  08:36:58


If you want to play in the key of E, you just need to spike the 5th string up to B (9th fret) and play the right chords (which will probably be E,A and B7).

If you want a truly open E tuning, my suggestion would be use the open D tuning of Scruggs (often achieved with D-tuners) and capo 2 and spike the 5th up appropriately.

But just like the guitar or mandolin, you can play in any key out of any tuning. And frankly, for folks looking to jam , I think the best thing to do the first years or so is concentrate on one tuning and play in several different keys out of that. The only reason for not doing so is if you want to jump right into old-time stuff but even then I'd say take a few months first and play general music before trying to specialize.

rstieg - Posted - 11/25/2011:  22:41:37



I agree with Minstrel Mike. As he says, it's especially easy to switch to open D tuning with D-tuners, then capo at 2 for E.



On the other hand, your profile says you're just starting, so you might want to hold off on learning to play in E for awhile. Most novices learn to play in G and then capo up for other keys like A, Bb, B, C, and maybe D. You'll need to capo your 5th string up the same number of frets.



However, eventually you will want to learn to play in any key and most people choose to learn to play "out of" either C or D, or both. That means staying in G tuning but playing the correct chords for the key of C or D. Once you learn that, in order to play in E you could play out of D in G tuning (as opposed to D tuning) and capo 2 for E, or play out of C (in G tuning) and capo at 4 for the key of E.



But then you didn't say why you wanted to play in "open E tuning with or without a capo". Did you really mean that you want to learn to play in the key of E, with or without a capo? If so, the previous paragraph gives you to basics of how to do do that.



Edited by - rstieg on 11/25/2011 22:50:57

steve davis - Posted - 11/26/2011:  04:58:51


I find great freedom in playing the key of E without retuning or capoing.
It's really quite simple.

TxBubbaDog - Posted - 11/26/2011:  12:11:59



Thanks for all the help y'all.



There seems to be some question of why I wanted to tune into Open E in the first place. There is a song by The Black Crowes called "She Talks to Angels" that is a really great song. It is played on the guitar in Open E, so I was trying to figure out how to acheive the same tuning on a banjo.



 


stormoveroklahoma - Posted - 11/26/2011:  14:28:30



Bela's "Big Country" is written in open "E" tuning:



E B E G# B


minstrelmike - Posted - 11/26/2011:  14:35:50


Ask the guitar player what the 1-4 strings are tuned to.

Chances are it is these changes if it is truly open E:
d up 2 to E
b same B
g up 1 to G#
d up 2 to E

The guitar goes to that tuning because it already has the E and B strings.
I play with guitarists who use that tuning and like Steve, I still stay in open G (but I retune the 5th string too).

The reason I do that is for the sound. I can get the E7 sound off the D strings:
E: 2102
E7: 2100 or 0102 or even 0100.
And the 0-2 hammer back to E is powerful.
Even try hammering from open G to E. for the combo dominant7 and minor back to E change

I like the open A7 too:
A: 2222
A7: x022 or 2022 and up higher 5655
and the open B7s with hammer-ons on anything you fret:
B7: 4201 1204 4204 1201

rstieg - Posted - 11/28/2011:  22:56:13



quote:


Originally posted by TxBubbaDog




Thanks for all the help y'all.



There seems to be some question of why I wanted to tune into Open E in the first place. There is a song by The Black Crowes called "She Talks to Angels" that is a really great song. It is played on the guitar in Open E, so I was trying to figure out how to acheive the same tuning on a banjo.



 






Especially since you're a beginner, I definitely wouldn't worry about how the guitar player plays a song on his guitar. The only thing you should worry about is playing the song in the same key (in standard G tuning), and you've been given explanations of how to do that. You should also be aware that as soon as you tune your banjo to a different tuning, all the chords change, so where you've learned to hold a D chord, F chord, C chord, even an (open) G chord, none of those (or any other) chords would be the same in "open E tuning". If you consider the implications, I think you'll see that your idea of learning to play in "open E" is something you shouldn't consider for a very long time, if ever. There are far more useful and important things for you to learn at this stage.



Edited by - rstieg on 11/28/2011 22:58:26

Helix - Posted - 11/28/2011:  23:20:03


Get a longneck, problem solved, I've been mainstreaming longecks into bluegrass for about 6 years.

The solutions I've read above will help me be a better player, I just don't have the low E problem with the capo on the 3rd fret for G. I just take the capo off and lower the 5th.

I also use higher notes on the 5th other than the root. I use extra spikes to do that.

rvrose - Posted - 11/29/2011:  10:57:09



quote:


Originally posted by Helix




Get a longneck, problem solved, I've been mainstreaming longecks into bluegrass for about 6 years.



The solutions I've read above will help me be a better player, I just don't have the low E problem with the capo on the 3rd fret for G. I just take the capo off and lower the 5th.



I also use higher notes on the 5th other than the root. I use extra spikes to do that.






 


That's exactly what I did! I usually gig with 2 banjos - one long neck for open E and my standard neck for everything else. I even put Keith-D tuners to tune the long neck to open D if I want. But I do admire those who can easily pick in all keys with standard tuning.


Rick


 


 


 


 


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