OK-4 - Posted - 11/10/2011:  19:12:13

I am relatively new to Nylgut strings, so far I've liked them, but...  I reached for a banjo that I set up with Nylgut about 2-3 months ago and discovered that the fifth string had snapped. Not at the nut or the tailpiece, but in the middle (actually around the 7th or 8th fret). This banjo has no spike, I haven't capoed it, and I seldom fret the 5th string, so I have a hard time thinking that string wear would be an issue. This is a 28" scale banjo tuned close to standard G (maybe the 5th was a tad below standard pitch judging by the remaining strings). I have probably kept that string in G since I installed it (with occasional fine tuning).

Is this just a stray bad string, or is this a common problem with Nylgut?

tdennis - Posted - 11/10/2011:  19:32:04

There have been quite a few discussions about the breakage of Nylgut strings, especially the 5th.  They seem to be inordinately sensitive to sharp edges/burrs, poor attachment knots, tailpieces,  & breaking in the middle from stretching them too quickly.     Once they're up & running they get universally good reviews.  I love them on ukuleles & banjo ukes , but have not put them on any long scale instruments yet. 

Edited by - tdennis on 11/10/2011 19:35:12

OK-4 - Posted - 11/10/2011:  21:31:36

The odd part is that it broke while sitting undisturbed at some point since I last picked it up (not while tuning).

Does anyone sell individual Nylgut strings? I only ever see them sold in sets.

f#dead - Posted - 11/10/2011:  22:14:57

I can't say why your 5th string broke.  I have on a couple of occasions had a Nylgut string break when I wasn't playing.  I have gone to the music store and purchased individual Classical Guitar clear nylon strings of equivilent sizing.  Search here and you will find the sizes for the Nylguts.  I wound up w/ D'Addario Pro-Art'e and I try to have an extra one or two for the 5th and 1st in the banjo case.  In a pinch I will use monofiliment as replacements.  At least until I can get the guitar strings.  There have been many forum threads here regarding fish line as strings.  Good luck and ymmv

Fathand - Posted - 11/11/2011:  04:24:57

I had a natural gut string on a bass break while sitting in the corner for several months or years. Maybe the nylguts are good copies of real gut.

dbrooks - Posted - 11/11/2011:  04:27:31

I have gotten individual 4th strings from Bernunzio.  The wound 4th string loses its wrappings after a few months and needs to be replaced before the other 4 strings.  By the way, I tested the unwound 4th string for Aquila, and they work well but I decided I like the feel and growl of the wound 4th better.

I have had the 5th string break before, but usually near the nut as a result of frequent retuning and wear over the nut.  It can be tough to tell where the break is because of how much the string stretches and retracts after breaking.  Since I usually buy a couple of sets of Nylguts, I have replaced the 5th with a string (either 5th or 1st) from another set.

I have not seen anyone who sells individual strings other than the 4th string.

David

trapdoor2 - Posted - 11/11/2011:  05:41:25

I have used nylguts almost exclusively since they first came out...and have them mounted on at least 6 or 7 banjos. I've probably gone thru 10 sets on my "go to" banjos.

That said, I have broken a 5th twice on the same banjo (while putting the string on), right in the middle. What I found was a sharp fret-end in the area...the only thing I could figure that caused a break. Nylguts are very susceptible to nicks. I've broken a couple of 1st strings as well and had one fail after months of playing, I never figured out that one...but my cat liked to chew on the strings and then suddenly stopped one day. I like to think it snapped on him...

Basically, these strings are hand-made in a very small (one man, Mimmo Peruffo) shop in Italy. I'm sure the occasional string with a weak spot just happens.

I really like Nylgut strings, so I keep several sets on hand at all times. I would recommend hitting your local guitar shop and buying a single nylon classical E string (treble) to replace the 5th. It will do fine until you need to replace the whole set.

Yigal Zan - Posted - 11/11/2011:  07:44:46

Not a recommendation, just a suggestion, don't put another nylgut, use steel string for the 5th.

I had perhaps two such experiences with nylgut, not necessarily with the 5th string, but, along the years I had quite a few such experiences with steel strings too.

As for nylgut, if you don't mind going by my mistakes, get the Classic Light Tension. In the past, the 4th string that came in the nylgut sets (Classic, Light Tension) were quite inferior  to  those that were provided as replacements singles. I havn't bother to research, but a casual eye sight gives the impression that the 4th strings that come in the sets, have recently been changed to the kind identical to those that are provided as singles.  

banjered - Posted - 11/11/2011:  08:17:02

That 28" scale is pretty long. Classical Nylgut would probably be more comfortable - less likely to break - tuned down to F or E.  If I had a 28" incher, I'd probably put Nylgut Minstrels on it and drop it down to D (dADF#A). However, if you are after G, perhaps the Nylgut light will get you there. The sound might be to whimpy or it might be fine, you won't know until you actually try on your particular banjo.  I stretch the daylights out of Nygut strings before stringing them up, about a minute or so. Perhaps you could tune them up to F for a couple of days before you crank them up to G. Hopefully, that would allow them to stretch more uniformly rather than thinning out a string at a particular point where it could break. Two cents due.  Banjered

mike gregory - Posted - 11/11/2011:  08:53:22

And if all else fails, try fishline.

Stretches like a comic-book hero for the first several days, but eventually settles down.

And a roll should fit easily in the case, take a year or three to get used up entirely.

Yigal Zan - Posted - 11/11/2011:  11:09:40

I have been using the Aquila Classic, Light-Tension nylgut on two 28" scale banjos, 12" rim Stewarts - Orchstra #2 and a no-model-name fretless (with Universal Favorite style 2 appointments), both with standard pitch tunings (Double-C, Open-G, etc.) for over two years without having any problems. Standard Tension, Minstrel, and un-wound 4th, happened to be too heavy for my strengths.

R Buck - Posted - 11/11/2011:  12:09:20

There is always a reason.  That is why I use Sands Classic strings, hard.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/11/2011:  12:18:11

I use Sands Heavy's on a banjo I keep 3 halftones below concert. For a 28 inch scale at concert I would probably use Sands Mediums. Elderly has them.

My experiences with Nylguts have all been negative - breaking, unwinding, taking forever to settle down, and while I seem to be in the minority on them, it appears I'm not the only one. Chris Sands Classical Banjo strings are really good and I've never had a problem with them.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 11/11/2011:  18:48:09

Yes, I've had std nylguts on several vintage 28" scale instruments w/o a problem. All tuned to std (gCGBD). I have never had a problem with the 4ths "unwinding" but they do wear out faster than the rest of the set. The windings were a softer material, it seems that the more recent sets have longer lasting 4ths. I also tested the solid 4ths but found no significant improvement and I liked the sound of the wound 4ths better.

Nylguts generally last well over 6 months for me on my "daily driver" instruments. At one time I would replace the 4ths every 3 months but the set I'm playing right now has been ton for 5 months and shows little sign of wear. The previous set were Clifford Essex guts and I really liked them a lot. They lasted over 6 months, something I never thought would happen (with gut especially). I must say that I have always been very easy on strings (steel or nylon/nylgut).

On a fretless, they seem to last nearly forever. I've had a 'minstrel' set on my Ashborn since 2007...

I do like the Chris Sands sets, they're quite hard and have a great sound. When I used to use them, I preferred the heavies.

OK-4 - Posted - 11/11/2011:  23:58:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by dbrooks

I have had the 5th string break before, but usually near the nut as a result of frequent retuning and wear over the nut.  It can be tough to tell where the break is because of how much the string stretches and retracts after breaking.  Since I usually buy a couple of sets of Nylguts, I have replaced the 5th with a string (either 5th or 1st) from another set.

---

 hmmmm. Now I am beginning to doubt that it really broke in the middle. It the string could stretch 2-3 inches, then  it may well have broken around the nut.

banjered - Posted - 11/12/2011:  09:59:30

If you are wondering if the fifth nut is hard on the nylgut, usually you can feel with your fingernails pinching to feel if the string is rough/shredded near the fifth nut and if it is, you need to smooth out the nut. Sometimes you can even see it with a magnifying glass. It does sound like the string broke at the nut from what you are saying. Once you get the nut/frets/bridge smoothed out right, nylguts last months to years. Banjered