OldPappy - Posted - 11/09/2011:  06:39:39

Rudy is the man !

On the few banjos I have built, I just ordered pre-slotted fret board blanks, but for one I am building now, I need a fret board for a non standard scale length, which is not available.

I have been wanting to learn how to make my own, and now have a good reason to start tooling up to do so.

So, I have been shopping around, and was a bit put off by the high price of the little back saws they sell for this.

Those little saws are very high priced, even if compared to hand made English back saws I use for other purposes. I can't get those in a thin enough kerf, so thought I was stuck with either paying about a $100 for a hand saw, or $75 for a table or circular saw blade.

I was just a few flicks of my fingers away from ordering that specialized fret saw blade from Stewmac to use on my table saw.

Then I went to Rudy's website to see a little power saw he had set up for cutting frets, and found where to get a blade that will just work fine for less than $10.

I think I'll buy a couple at that price.

The blades are cut for a 1" arbor, but can be fitted to a 5/8" by using reduction bushings available from the same place.

I happen to have a little "Flooring Saw" (miniture circular saw for getting into tight spots) that I can fit the blade to, or I could use it on my Shopsmith which has a 1" arbor, and make a shooting sled to ride in the miter slots. 

mike gregory - Posted - 11/09/2011:  06:54:53

I use a plain old arm-powered back saw, and clamp a slat of hardwood to the blade, with a couple small C clamps.

The saw cuts down until the slat is sliding on the  fingerboard, and then it stops.

Less work than making a shooting sled for my Shopsmith.

In this picture, I have a lot of blade showing, so it would photograph better. In reality, I have it set just enough past the teeth, to allow the fretwire tang to fit down, and not much more than that.

. .

Edited by - mike gregory on 11/09/2011 07:05:20

beegee - Posted - 11/09/2011:  07:10:44

Just out of curiosity, what scale length and why?

dickinnorwich - Posted - 11/09/2011:  07:29:28

Andy:

The mechanics of the cutting process are one thing but embedded in your post is the fact that you are intending to make a fingerboard for a "non standard scale length, which is not available."

When I cut fret slots, I use a standard issue fret saw. I do it the easy way where I work off another fret board which has the slots already cut. I clamp the original fret board next to the board into which I'm cutting new frets and pull the fret saw back letting the blade ride in the  pre-cut slot. This way, assuming the fret slots were cut accurately in the original board, I'm pretty confident when I'm done that the slots in the new board are accurate.

Obviously, you have an entirely different problem where you don't have a pre-existing board to use as a guide. I'm thinking that the way to do this is make a paper pattern that you can temporarily glue down to the fingerboard to use as a guide. I'm less concerned about the mechanics of the cutting process and what tool you use than I am with achieving accuracy for this non-standard scale length.  

Edited by - dickinnorwich on 11/09/2011 07:35:14

BNJOMAKR - Posted - 11/09/2011:  07:37:33

Check with First Quality Music. They used to cut custom fret board scales. You just had to tell them the scale length and the number of frets that you needed.

Frank Ford - Posted - 11/09/2011:  07:45:00

Our old pal, Randy Allen, bought the fret slotting rig from our even older pal, Chuck Erikson ("The Duke of Pearl") and is set up to cut over 180 different fret scales:

allenguitar.com/fret_slo.htm

sunburst - Posted - 11/09/2011:  08:08:48

There are several outfits cutting fingerboards with CNC, any scale length you want. I've been getting Steve Smith (at Cumberland Acoustic) to cut odd scales for me, but he says he's trying to get away from cutting fingerboards, so I suppose I'll be going elsewhere next time something odd comes up.
I have a table saw fret slot cutting blade and a home made jig that cuts the scale lengths I normally use, but even with that much hardware already in my possession, putting me that close to setting up for another scale length, now that CNC cut boards are available I don't bother to set up for odd lengths for one or two 'boards.

Quickstep192 - Posted - 11/09/2011:  08:12:56

I believe Luthier's Mercantile will cut any scale you want

lmii.com

OldPappy - Posted - 11/09/2011:  08:33:12

I am always experimenting with different things, and this is my current experiment.

I want to bring the bridge closer to the center of the head on an 11" rim.

I have done this before by using a common "A" scale fretboard, and just leaving a little extra length at the heel. That worked out just fine, except the banjo was a little longer overall than I want with this build.

The neck I am in the process of making for this one will be shorter, and will have a scale of about 21 1/2 to 22 inches, which will also move the bridge closer to center, and provide the overall size of banjo I am after.

I hadn't even thought about FQMS, but unless the cost is very reasonable, I will probably want to go ahead and set up the tools I need to do this for myself.

rudy - Posted - 11/09/2011:  08:45:59

Here's the saw setup Oldpappy was referring to:

I started doing boards many years ago with the usual fret slotting back saw and fence set-up, but realized after a few boards that this was WAY to much work just to put a few dozen slots in a board.  The little saw shown has been used to make several hundred slots and I haven't even put in the spare blade that I purchased for it.  It does banjos, lap steels, mando family instruments of various sizes, and guitars without me breaking a sweat.  The specifics are here on the hangout in my photos section as well as on the Bluestemstrings.com website.

I have a bunch of different scales I made up using the ever-useful and ubiquitous wFret from our friend Jon Whitney here on the hangout.  Each new scale is permanently scribed on the rear face of a cheap aluminum yardstick and cut to length.  The resulting template is held at the edge of the fret board and the scribed line positions are carefully transferred to the fret board rear edge.  The resulting marks are held to the rear fence of the jig and the slots are then cut.  I occasionally add a fresh piece of sacrificial wood at the front edge of the rear fence so the slot where the cut is made will be sharp and clean, as the fret board marking is held to this cut to locate the position of each new fret slot.

Edited by - rudy on 11/09/2011 08:48:20

Jonnycake White - Posted - 11/09/2011:  08:53:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by dickinnorwich

Obviously, you have an entirely different problem where you don't have a pre-existing board to use as a guide. I'm thinking that the way to do this is make a paper pattern that you can temporarily glue down to the fingerboard to use as a guide. I'm less concerned about the mechanics of the cutting process and what tool you use than I am with achieving accuracy for this non-standard scale length.  

 

 

---

 The way to make that paper pattern is with WFret (which Rudy kindly mentioned above), which is a download for Windows, or FretFind 2D which is a web-based app available here: ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/

I usually use WFret and tape the paper template down to the fretboard blank with clear tape, it seems easier to clean up that way.  I use a StewMac Waverly fretting back saw (which they have updated now to cut on the pull stroke), selling for about $28.  I double-stick-taped a depth stop to mine made from a scrap of acrylic plastic, on the right side.  I line it up square with a 7" plastic rafter angle square, held on the left side of the blade.   The square is thick enough to act as a vertical (as well as horizontal) blade guide if I'm careful. Being made from plastic, it won't dull my saw teeth.  One of these days I'll have to replace the square but so far I haven't made enough instruments to scar it up too bad. 

Jon W.

Edited by - Jonnycake White on 11/09/2011 09:03:26

Jonnycake White - Posted - 11/09/2011:  09:05:54

If I were turning out a batch of fretboards at once, I'd be really tempted to go with a thin blade on my Shopsmith.

mike gregory - Posted - 11/09/2011:  09:41:43

It also occurs to me that I don't quite "get" using the Shopsmith.  Is there  enough clearance, Clarence?

Isn't the end of the fingerboard going to bump up agaist the motor housing? Or will the table be high enough that it won't?

Jonnycake White - Posted - 11/09/2011:  09:57:33

In table saw mode, the table is up above the Shopsmith motor housing.

Randall - Posted - 11/09/2011:  12:34:21

beware of First Quality slotting boards. The last ones I got from them were poorly done. the slots were way to wide on one side of the board, all the way down the board. Plus the ends aren't squared off with the first fret. They are aware of this and Merle says many have brought it to their attention. They still haven't done anything about it though.