Pete Sparkes - Posted - 10/06/2011:  11:19:36

Hi to everybody,,,,    I am new to BHO and to banjo's, an forums and such, so I don't know what I am doing really,  please bare with me.  I play guitar, I have done for ages. But only chord stuff to back myself singing.  I have not really played much lead stuff. I have allways had a thing for ukulele's, and I also have a couple of uke banjo's .    I have an old five string Savana banjo, I am trying to learn, some bluegrass stuff. I have got into old 1920's songs to sing with my uke. I would like to buy a " " REAL" " banjo. I like Plectrum banjo's but I don't have very big hands, and I  wonder if a tenor would suit me better,  has anyone ever tuned one like a ukulele, if so does it sound ok.  

What a great site this is any body any idea's

Pete

tdennis - Posted - 10/06/2011:  11:45:28

Technically a tenor could be tuned to ukulele  tuning, but it would take very thin gauge strings,  & the sound would not be especially satisfying. (I have tried this,  & found the voice to be thin, lacking character, & richness).  The ukulele has a scale of 13 - 17" & uses nylon strings,  the tenor  banjo has a scale of  21-23", & uses steel strings.   To get up to uke tuning would take very light gauge strings.    Best to either play tenor  as designed,  or get a banjo ukulele.   

un5trung - Posted - 10/06/2011:  12:00:03

Tenors are commonly tuned in fifths -- 19-fret tenors in cgda, 17-fret in gdae. All 19s can be tuned down a fifth, some 17s can be tuned up a fifth.

Some players tune 4-string banjos like the treble four guitar strings, dgbe. A similar tuning is the open G: dgbd.

Mandolin banjos are tuned like mandolins: gdae.

The tunngs are not mutually exclusive; one player can use all four tunings on the same banjo with the same stings in one sitting with minimal re-tuning.

Finally, there are likely many more, these are just the ones I use, and I'm a player of very, very minimal ability.

Bart McNeil - Posted - 10/07/2011:  05:17:20

Regarding plectrum and small hands:

If you can play guitar succcessfully then I shouldn't think plectrum would be much of a real problem. Besides if you find full chords particularly difficult then move to primarily double stops as chords. I play plectrum every day and seldom use full four string chords.... Not because I can't, but because I prefer the sound of partial chords, for whatever reason. I have tenors a five string and a plectrum and frankly I really value those few extra bass notes on the plectrum. I love to put in a bass roll now and then just because I can.

Bart

If you could get our bhands on a plectrum for a few weeks I am fairly positive you will find that is can be a wonderful instrument for your purposes.

aroblin - Posted - 10/07/2011:  07:07:20

Pete--

Pat Terry, a fine tenor player and teacher, use a "re-entrant" tuning similar to a soprano or concert uke.

He tunes what it normally the lowest string--C-- an octave or two higher.

Sounds good, too.

Andrew

banjopaolo - Posted - 10/07/2011:  07:44:48

if you're a guitarist you can tune a tenor like the top four strings of guitar dgbe, it's a common tuning called 'chicago tuning' (I don't know why.....), if you want a more 'uke' sound put a thin string on the low D and tune it one octave higher...
ciao

tdennis - Posted - 10/07/2011:  08:04:30

I have several tenors( banjo & guitars)  tuned  Chicago style ,but w/  the 4th string tuned up an octave.  This allows me to easily switch between ukulele & tenor (I will learn a song on ukulele, & use the same fingering for tenor )   This also gives an instrument a unique voice. (however , it is at the sacrifice of any bass range).  

Pete Sparkes - Posted - 10/08/2011:  10:41:36

Hi to everybody,,,,    Thank you all so much for your replies,,, I have decided to get a Plectrum,banjo,  I think, I will let you know how I get on.  Pete.

What a great site this is, what is the feelings about Ozark banjo's. thanks.

Blueclover - Posted - 10/08/2011:  12:00:57

HI, I'm new here. Been playing Bluegrass 5 string, attempting to master Scruggs style picking for 5 yrs. Got into Irish music a couple of years ago. Now have acquited a 1923 Washburn Style A 17 fret banjo. I am using the E A D G  tuning. the E A D strings seem fine to play, tone is what I expect, but the G is sooooo 'loose' I wonder what I'm doing wrong?

Jerry

BanjoBelle - Posted - 10/08/2011:  14:51:58

Hey Pete! I'm a ukulele lover also. In fact I have more experience on uke than irish tenor banjo. Be patient with yourself,if there's a local music store near you you could go try a tenor there & see how you like it. I don't think hand size wise it would make a big difference going from a 5 to a 4 string. Let me know if you get a 4 string banjo & would love to hear about your ukulele collection!

BDCA - Posted - 10/09/2011:  08:35:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blueclover

HI, I'm new here. Been playing Bluegrass 5 string, attempting to master Scruggs style picking for 5 yrs. Got into Irish music a couple of years ago. Now have acquited a 1923 Washburn Style A 17 fret banjo. I am using the E A D G  tuning. the E A D strings seem fine to play, tone is what I expect, but the G is sooooo 'loose' I wonder what I'm doing wrong?

What guage string are you using? You could go as high as a .044.
Cya!
Bob
 

Jerry

---

string8 - Posted - 10/17/2011:  20:31:43

So Blueclover? What was the answer to Bob's question? What guage or type/set of strings are you using? I want to tune my 19-fret, 23"-scale-length tenor to GDAE but not sure what the ultimate string gauges would be. Bob? Anyone?

Thanks

tdennis - Posted - 10/17/2011:  20:43:33

string8,   There is no "ultimate " string gauge, there are merely choices.  For GDAE, you might try 12, 16, 24,36, or 10,16,24,36.  (light gauge 10,16,24,30).   1  minute of research will get you all the available choices on the internet, there are dozens of combinations.  Light gauges are easy to play, heavier gauges give better tone. (perhaps it's time for experimentation. It's not unusual for players to buy several different sets & switch them out, if they  don't feel right , or give the desired voice. ) 

Edited by - tdennis on 10/17/2011 20:51:43

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 10/17/2011:  20:48:31

string8,

A medium/heavy set for your 23" scale banjo will be f.ex. 013-020W-030W-040W - a heavy set f.ex. 014-024W-032W-042W.

Polle

string8 - Posted - 10/17/2011:  22:49:56

Thanks guys. I guess I am just having a little trouble with the physics of it all. Seems like if you have a 17-fret set up w GDAE strings, and you put them on a longer scale 19-fret instrument, the strings, being longer, would sound generally lower, so I guess I was thinking if one increased the length of the scale, you'd perhaps want a string gauge a little thinner than what works well for the smaller 17-fret length. TDennis seems to say the D'Addario Irish Tenor gauges that one uses for the 17-fret should be fine. And Polle seems to say go even larger/heavier... which seems to be the general agreement. But I just don't get the physics of it. It's odd that's it's not so easy for me to grasp...

There seem to be 3 ways to change pitch:

1) tighten or loosen
2) increase or decrease length
3) increase or decrease gauge of string

So if one increases the length, shouldn't one have to decrease the gauge, tension being equal, to get the same note?

I may never understand this at the level I'd like, but thank you guys for your ideas.

I guess I will just try.

tdennis - Posted - 10/17/2011:  23:08:25

string8,  I wouldn't agonize over this too much, You can hardly go wrong with whatever you choose.   Time, & experience will eventually lead you to a set that suits your taste.  

RUBY2 - Posted - 10/18/2011:  04:02:57

Hi Pete
Welcome to BHO!
This Is a fab site, that has many incredible players willing to help out and bend over backwards and help you out.
I can't help too much, I've only been playing about 2 1/2 years or so and also play tenor tuned for jazz.
Nice to see someone here from England too. Not to many of us here. Lol
Ta
Richard

cb56 - Posted - 10/30/2011:  05:46:10

If you are looking for a 4 string banjo tuned like a uke but with steel strings (is that it?) Here's something I've considered.

A Gold Tone Plucky (small scale 5 string with steel strings) is tuned cGCEG. Take the 5th string off and you have GCEG tune the 1st string up a step and you have GCEA (low G ukulele tuning) buy an extra 1st string and put it in the 4th string slot and tiune it to High g and you have gCEA (standard ukulele tuning) all this is small scale for you too.

Jim Yates - Posted - 10/30/2011:  08:47:55

You might get some ideas from this thread: banjohangout.org/topic/218448

randomman123 - Posted - 10/30/2011:  09:28:18

They also make banjoleles.

Blueclover - Posted - 10/30/2011:  16:49:57

Well guys, I restrung with heavier strings, D'Addario med Irish Tenor. It helped. I really want to use the GDAE tuning, like the mandolin and violin (two more instruments on the bucket list) and I play traditional Irish music, so traditional tuning is where I should go. Something still isn't right. I'm guessing bridge intonation. The scale when I set the intonation by ear is 21" on this 17 fret tenor. Picking scales on individual strings sound ok, but chords....hurt my ears!!!

Jerry

BDCA - Posted - 10/30/2011:  19:49:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blueclover

Well guys, I restrung with heavier strings, D'Addario med Irish Tenor. It helped. I really want to use the GDAE tuning, like the mandolin and violin (two more instruments on the bucket list) and I play traditional Irish music, so traditional tuning is where I should go. Something still isn't right. I'm guessing bridge intonation. The scale when I set the intonation by ear is 21" on this 17 fret tenor. Picking scales on individual strings sound ok, but chords....hurt my ears!!!



Jerry

---

Don't forget that for Irish tuning there is a huge variation in string diameters resulting in the need for a serious bridge angle to adjust for intonation. To set intonation, hit the harmonic on the 12th fret on the E string then fret the note. If the fretted note is sharp, move the bridge towards the tailpiece and vice versa. Then, keeping the treble side fixed, do the same for the G. You will have an angle to the bridge and the chords should sound fine up the neck.

Cya!

Bob

Pete Sparkes - Posted - 10/31/2011:  06:32:06

Hi everyone,,, thanks for all your replies, and for taking the time out to post, I have been searching through the various things, and read a lot of stuff. I hope I have learned a bit too.
I am going to carry on and hope to learn a bit more.

Pete.

Blueclover - Posted - 11/01/2011:  05:14:44

Thanks Bob,

youkoul - Posted - 11/02/2011:  08:00:28

Hello,



I play a lot of ukulele, and I try to learn banjo now. I found an old may bell tenor banjo and at this time I've tuned it in DGBE (Chicago tuning, tell me if I'm wrong...), but with aquila baryton ukulele strings (available in high or low D).

So, it sounds completly like a banjo and I can play it like a baryton ukulele (same as Chicago tuning).

The sound is really pleasant and nylgut strings are really good on a banjo.

And at the beginning of the world, banjos was tuned with gut strings isn't it? So, why not?

Edited by - youkoul on 11/02/2011 08:04:00

BDCA - Posted - 11/02/2011:  09:23:40

Why not tune like a uke? I have a solid body  tenor uke I have tuned like a tenor banjo EADG and I use it to learn tunes while flying. I had an 8 hour flight yesterday and learned 3 new Irish tunes. I am sure you could come up with a set of gauges that would work on the banjo in Uke tuning that would sound quite interesting!

CYa!

Bob

lamylouy - Posted - 11/05/2011:  12:12:17

Lots of good advice about turning but way over my head. My tenor Banjo came with a Pitch pipe scale and it is CGDA have just sent off for some tenior banjo strings after buying some for a 5th string banjo and was told they would work and I would have an extra string?
I seem to break the A string when I try to tune it. So am hoping to get a tuning thing that I saw on the net to help.
I don't care for the vibration the notes make so am not sure what I am not doing. If I don't press real hard they just pluck. Have been practicing for almost a month got Mel Bay's first book and am singing Skip To My Lou and still trying.
Janie aka a senior having fun!

cb56 - Posted - 11/05/2011:  15:46:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by randomman123

They also make banjoleles.

---

Strung with nylon strings not metal

lamylouy - Posted - 11/05/2011:  16:11:20

Mine are metal even the ones I sent off for are I think/

cb56 - Posted - 11/06/2011:  04:50:16

A banjo uke with metal strings? What brand where did you get it?

lamylouy - Posted - 11/06/2011:  10:24:57

I got them on Amazon

Blueclover - Posted - 11/07/2011:  06:33:31

When I started this topic I had no idea how much attention it would draw! To solve my 'issues' with tuning and 'sound' in the Traditional Irish Tenor GDAE, I went to med Irish Tenor strings (G is .42) and changed the bridge, re-cut the bridge notches to match the angle of the ridge after intonation as the G was quite a bit back from the E. Changed the tension tuners to geared and tightened the head similar to my 5 string Bluegrass banjo. Now I am happy with the tuning and sound. Finding a lot of resources to learn from on line.

Jerry

johneeeveee - Posted - 11/15/2011:  09:13:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by tdennis

I have several tenors( banjo & guitars)  tuned  Chicago style ,but w/  the 4th string tuned up an octave.  This allows me to easily switch between ukulele & tenor (I will learn a song on ukulele, & use the same fingering for tenor )   This also gives an instrument a unique voice. (however , it is at the sacrifice of any bass range).  

---

What type and gauge strings do you use for your DGBE tuning on a tenor?

Blueclover - Posted - 11/16/2011:  10:14:21

I used GHS Celtic Tenor strings .014 .024w .032w .042w.  The set I origionally used were .012 .016 .024w .036w. and were too light for the tuning and Banjo.

NYCJazz - Posted - 11/16/2011:  14:44:05

I used to see sets of tenor guitar strings for DGBE.

lamylouy - Posted - 11/17/2011:  12:14:48

This may sound odd but my tenor banjo sound to loud , I prefer strumming with my thumb instead of a pick as it seems to vibrate when I us my pick to play. I always have it tuned to CGDA or as close as I can get. Maybe I am strumming to hard with the pick?
Another question; It show what cords to play but it also shows the notes are they the same? I tend to go to the tab since I don't read notes.
Janie

Blueclover - Posted - 11/17/2011:  12:34:52

Try    theirishtenorbanjo.ning.com/gr...onyoutube

I just google Irish Tenor Banjo to find tab. Remember this tuning is the same as a mandolin, Mandolin chord chords work.  I also bought Gerry O'Conner's book on learning the Irish Tenor Banjo

Blueclover - Posted - 11/17/2011:  12:36:36

Try    theirishtenorbanjo.ning.com/gr...onyoutube

I just google Irish Tenor Banjo to find tab. Remember this tuning is the same as a mandolin, Mandolin chord chords work.  I also bought Gerry O'Conner's book on learning the Irish Tenor Banjo. The 'tab' essentially is by fret # and string. Easier for us that do not read music.